Sexy Move: Won’t Know Until You Try

From the forum…

Deciduous:  This morning we were involved in husband and wife activities…

At the beginning, she played a little game she has done in the past a few times.

“What if I don’t let you?”

In the past, I usually shrugged that off, but not in a dominant way, usually in a playful manner, and it has never resulted in no happyfuntime.

I would usually say something along the lines of “I have never had an unsatisfied customer” or “I prefer willing participants”.

This time I said, in a rather growly way whilst burying her head in my quite well developed pecs…

“Then I’m just gonna take what I want”

At this point, I almost couldn’t believe that came out of my mouth. I didn’t stop, but my mind was racing…wow, did I just do that?

Her response FLOORED me.

“I think I would like that. A LOT”

Holy crap. This manosphere stuff isn’t 50% bullshit after all.

Maybe only 25%.

The fact that she wants the OLD me, the guy that had her as #2 in a soft harem 13 years ago, rather than the guy I figured made more sense with 2 young kids…

Good lord.

Athol:  As long as you have all the basic structural attraction pieces in place – a job, basic health, reasonable fitness, no critical emotional incidents screwing everything up… sometimes all that’s left to do is make a dominant move.

If you try it and she says “no”, well you weren’t going to get laid anyway.

If you try it and she says “yes”, or at least doesn’t say “no” and makes some kind of vaguely positive response… then you go for it.

Takes a couple minutes to see how it works. If you’ve been doing everything else and getting minimal sexual response from her, you may as well try something new.

You won’t know until you try.

Jennifer is Still Alive

Reader:  Athol, I read your post about your wife and the breast cancer scare. Scary stuff huh.

Some years ago I became familiar with a book “Dressed to Kill,” in which the author shared a concern that there might be a link between underwire bras and breast cancer. It wasn’t a scientific book and the author didn’t claim that kind of clout, but she seemed sincere. In the years since then I did meet a woman who mentioned she quit wearing underwires and noticed a decrease in monthly pain and lumps. I don’t know if that means lower chance of breast cancer, but it seems like it at least couldn’t hurt. I don’t know if it’s been proven or not, but if such a simple thing could improve your situation that would be great, and a low-risk private thing to try.

PS- How do you pronounce “Athol”?

Athol:  I believe there is a link between underwire bras, but not sure how strong it is. But yeah… Jennifer can have whatever bra she wants. I actually get a little short-tempered at her about timely replacement. The boobies get nestled in the lap of luxury… assuming it’s on sale of course.

Not so much a breast cancer scare as needing to repeat a mammogram. Jennifer is fine. Just a six month follow up mammogram to keep watch. I get twitchy because the first time around was just an awful clusterfuck of misdiagnosis, shitty patient care and she took nearly three years before one breast was feeling up for sexual playtime fun.

And thank you to everyone that has emailed, messaged and so to us about it. Much appreciated.

It’s pronounced   “ath” with a soft “a”… then “ill”.


Relative vs Absolute Sex Rank and the Forty-Year-Old Wife

Comment on Dread Game and the Gym.

DrocK: Fun thing to try! Since it can be a challenge to set-up a good Dread Game scenario, especially early on, I’ve found that there are mildly effective ways to get your own ‘in-house’ game going and throw her Hamster through a loop just by pushing the right buttons. While not as effective as getting real IOI’s, it’s a good way to mess with her a little bit, generate a little sexual tension and can have a profound effect if you’re creative about it. Case-in-point – I casually threw out the Old Guy vs. Young Guy game idea at my wife over the weekend by simply shaping it as a question. She’s loosely aware that I’m MAPping, but is not aware of MMSL. We’ve been sexless for about ~55 weeks or so (not that anyone’s counting!), but things are improving quickly and dramatically.

So I asked her who she thinks would have a better chance at winning her over – the Young Me that got her when we met (at 23) or the now me about 10 years later. I don’t doubt that I’m much wiser and more attractive now, so I was comfortable asking her. Might not work too well if you’re brand new to MAPing, so the timing could make a difference. So she said the now, older me. Hands down. I let her think about it for a few seconds and then clarified, ‘WE ARE talking about winning over the 20 y/o you from 10 years ago… still think the now me would have a better shot?” Again, yes, without hesitation she affirmed that the now me is far more attractive and would get the ‘younger her’ attention much more readily vs. the younger me.

After that I didn’t have to say anything at all. Just watching the wheels turn and the expression on her face change slowly from ‘happily content with my more attractive husband’ to ‘holy shit, I could lose him to a friggin’ 20 year-old if I don’t step it up’ was classic.

Athol:  If there’s a single moment women have where they get the Red Pill for themselves, it’s the moment when they realize relative Sex Rank doesn’t count, only absolute Sex Rank does.

Women all start off their sex lives pretty close to the peak of their attractiveness and are very attuned to their peer group. So they think of themselves as being hot relative to their peer group cohort…. and then keep thinking of themselves as being hot relative to their peer group as they age. So if a twenty-year-old looks at her peer group and decides she’s a 9… she’s a 9. But then twenty years later when she’s forty, when she looks at her peer group of other forty-year-old women and decides she’s a 9… newsflash, she’s not a 9.

Obviously the same woman at age 20 isn’t going to be as hot at age 40. Relative to her girlfriends, she may still be the hot one, but in absolute terms compared to all the women in the Sexual Marketplace… maybe she’s a 6 or a 7. Hell if she got properly fat, maybe she’s a 4. Meanwhile her husband has potentially continued to gain Sex Rank as he gains money, power and social influence.

This is utterly horrifying for women to realize.

It’s a bitter pill to men to realize they screwed up a bunch of stuff in the past, but at least there’s a hope for the future. Sure it’s hard work turning things around, but every single guy that’s run the MAP, eventually gets to a sexy outcome if they put the effort in and make the hard choices. It may take a couple years to get there, but there’s always hope.

Women are just screwed though. You’re forty. The best bit is over, you’ll never be as hot as you were. This is as good as it gets. Please keep your arms and legs inside the train, it’s all downhill from here. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.

Actually that’s not entirely true. There’s a loophole that will carry you into your golden years, loved and desired… your husband’s oneitis.

So if you are an older girl, yes you’re getting older, but you don’t just throw on sweatpants, give up and plan to negotiate for alimony, chocolate ice cream and cats. You age gracefully. You exercise, you wear makeup, you play with him, you keep your game on. Yes it’s all building a sand castle below the high tide mark, but that’s what life is all about anyway. You battle to the end in a mighty effort, repairing, rebuilding, until that one wave that’s unstoppable washes over it all and it’s finally gone. It’s hopeless, it’s always been hopeless, but that’s okay.

If you’re a woman, if you keep your attractiveness together as best you can, that’s going to trigger his oneitis, his memory of the young you imprinted on him. You’ll be fifty-three and dancing with him, a shot of your cleavage, your smell, your touch, those same adoring eyes… and you’re twenty-three again. Maybe no one else sees it, but he will, because he has oneitis. He’ll look around at all the other husbands with chubby screechtards and think to himself, relative to everyone else, he’s got it really good.

But leave it too long. Don’t bother trying. Ignore him. Shun him from your bed. Eventually the scales will fall from his eyes.

If you’re a husband, the dread of relative and absolute Sex Rank can wake her up. Indeed if it does, it’s potentially doing her a favor. She shouldn’t confuse the fiction of older women in the dating market with the reality of it.

The truth is, most husbands idly fantasize about hooking up with younger women, I mean I do. But given a choice between a bunch of hook ups, short term relationships an/or a soft harem of younger women… most husbands would still choose their wife provided they had reasonable assurance there would be a good sex life with her. The kids, the history, the aroma of… pie.

Personally I don’t need Jennifer to be twenty again. Forty is fine. Just a good forty.


Dread Game and the Gym

One of the hard things about running the MAP and exercising is that it’s slow going. Especially at the start. That first 6 to even 12 months can be not much more than laying the groundwork for pulling out of Phase One and into Phase Two and Three. Other women throwing themselves at you might be a loooooong way off.

Something you can do early on though to create the sense that you’re actually serious about changing and are making progress toward fitness goals, is to update her periodically your improvements. For example I’m on a four day cycle of (1) upper body, (2) lower body, (3) rest/light day, (4) cardio hell.

Cardio Hell is the exercise bikes in the gym and going pretty much as hard as I can for an hour. The first time I did it I only managed 40 minutes before wanting to get off. The next time I did 11.3 miles according to the bike. Last time I did 12.0 miles. Today I did 12.4. Each time I either texted Jennifer or told her. We were at the gym together today so obviously she saw it as well.

My actual numbers aren’t wildly important, just the progression in improvement. It could be 4 miles, 4.3 miles, 4.7 miles. The message is the same… dude is getting fitter. I do the same with the Leg Press on leg day. I did X! I did X+20! I did X+40!! Rwar!  Jennifer really is impressed by it.

There’s no threat here, just natural excitement that you’re progressing. Her hamster will kick in and do the heavy lifting supplying a sense of growing dread that you’re getting hotter.

Of course Jennifer has been doing the same thing right back to me. Running and shit. Bitch. Crap, she’s really working hard here. Wow. Hmmm.

Jennifer: It’s not a competition lol. We do both feel better and that’s what’s important. Okay…it’s a competition….but you’ll always win at weights so I can win at running.

You’re Late, You’re Late, For A Very Important Date

Via text…

Athol: I’m going to Big Steve’s for lunch. Free?

Jennifer:  OMG yes. Meet you there in 20? You can order for me if you want.

Athol: What do you want?

Jennifer: Lobster soup, or whatever other soup if there’s no lobster.

Athol: K

Athol: 1pm

Jennifer: Kk

Okay first things first. Big Steve’s is in Plainville, Connecticut. If you’re within striking distance, it’s worth the trip for a proper burger. Yeah, yeah I know it involves bread, sorry Paleonazi’s, but if you’re going to have a burger it’s a good, “homemade” burger and no more expensive than McDonalds. I get it with lettuce, cheese, mustard, ketchup, raw onions and a fried egg. I know the egg sounds weird, just trust me on it.

I could have been all Lord Alpha and just ordered whatever and Jennifer would have eaten it because she’s like that. I was actually thinking she wanted a burger and if she texted me what she wanted, I’d not have to remeber it because it would be on my phone. As it was… lobster soup… oh yeah… that’s her Plan B dish here. So glad I didn’t order a burger.

Anyway… I said meet at 1pm because that would have been 26 minutes after Jennifer said “Meet you there in 20?”

You know where this is going.

I was there at 12:58 and ordered the food.

At 1:02…. Jennifer: Traffic on Queen St. Coming!”

Check the GPS app as the food arrives… [Jennifer is 3.2 miles away]

Well seeing the office is 3.4 miles away, I don’t think she even left until 1pm. Meaning, yeah traffic (I believe her there was traffic), but she didn’t even leave until 1pm. Meaning she was always going to be late. Hmmm…. I’m actually mildly annoyed by that. The food is already here.


(1)  Tell her off about being late. Be grumpy.

(2) Scamper about finding a cover for her soup and just pick at my fries healthfood until she arrives because it’s rude to start eating before anyone else.

(3)  Pretend everything is fine and make her pay somehow.

(4)  Cover her soup with napkins keeping the heat in a little better. Just start eating my burger.

Jennifer arrived about 1:10… to the scene of (4) the soup a little cooled and then we had a fun lunch.

So, let’s analyze the options and why I choose (4)

Once upon a time I probably would have done something even worse than (2), as in not even order until my date arrived, even if we had agreed I would order in advance. The improvement to that anxious behavior being brave enough to order, but then freaking out like a lost minion once the food arrived. (2) Just telegraphs fear of displeasing her, a very low display of value.

(3) Is somewhat of an addition to (2). Having let myself get anxious and freaked out, now I’m just brave enough to sucker punch you somehow on something else. It’s indirect rage and very ineffective. She won’t even have a clue why I got her back either. Passive-aggressive sucks.

(1) Is almost right. It’s better than (2) and (3), at least I’m standing up for myself and demanding to be taken seriously. But it’s also just a little much… it’s a spur of the moment lunch. For all I know Jennifer had to cram 45 minutes of work into 26 minutes to make her date with me. There really was traffic. I might unwittingly punish her for making an effort to be with me. That makes everything a net negative experience = “Lunch with Athol is unfun ” = “Unsexy”

The correct answer is (4). She was late and the natural consequence of being late was that her food was slightly sub-optimal in tempature. I was on on time and my burger was great. Because it was a natural consequence, it’s not me punishing her. It’s low key, straightforward and not me taking it personally. If she had complained, I’d just parrot back, “We agreed I’d order this to be ready at 1pm, you were late, not my fault.”

Anyway… I am of course writing about all this, so it’s potentially also a pot shot at her and potential (3), but jeepers… it’s just soup and I know Jennifer well enough to know that she runs and then she hop, hop, hops and wishes she could fly and I was semi-suprised she could even make lunch in the first place.  Besides, I really only wanted a defense for eating a huge hamburger. I don’t have to watch what I eat on a date right?

Jennifer:  If I’m late, does that make you the Mad Hatter?


Got My Mojo Working (It Just Won’t Work On You)

Great song.

The solution is of course outcome independence. When you’ve got your mojo working, while you’re fixated on the one that isn’t interested in you…

…someone else is staring at you with drenched panties.

All you’ll have to do is call her over and she’ll do the rest.

This does of course assume you have you mojo working. It’s pronounced “mojo”, but it’s spelt m-u-s-c-l-e-s.

There’s also nothing like reducing your attention and going off with another girl to make you seem suddenly more attractive anyway. Nothing breeds like success.

New Year’s Eve and It Just Happened

Slightly out of context…

Reader:  I have also discovered that there’s another guy on the scene she’s been seeing behind my back messages on Facebook meeting up with him when supposed to be visiting friends so things could get interesting.  Do I tell her I know about this guy or keep quiet and work on my MAP and win her back?

Athol:  Also added into that concern was that Christmas is coming and he doesn’t want to ruin it for the kids. Plus based on Facebook messaging it only seems to have been some “drunken fumbling” so far. No actual sex.

Yes you do work on your MAP and get yourself as attractive as possible, but with another man active on the playing field, you need to actively intervene on that as your first order of business. Skip to Chapter 27 in the Primer and follow that. Once all the drama and dust settles, women typically will gravitate to the male with the most dominant approach to the situation. Gather your information and make a move to stopping it.

If you don’t intervene, you running the MAP isn’t going to work. She’s already getting her Alpha fix from someone else, leaving you only a Beta supply role. You can up your Alpha all you like and she won’t notice she’ll be so busy creating space between you. The sudden threat of ending the relationship and removing her entire Beta support system in your justifiable anger typically snaps a wife’s attention back into proper focus. The boyfriend is typically in no position to really offer her a Beta support structure, meaning the failure of the affair as a relationship. It usually takes the betrayed partner’s unwitting Beta support to sustain the affair.

Also it’s very tempting to drag the chain a little and keep the peace until after Christmas. I must strongly advise against that. The longer you let it go, the greater the likihood that the Emotional Affair, turns into a Physical Affair and that makes it a great deal harder to reign back in and repair. I would also assign a 100% chance that if the affair is still active by New Year’s Eve, that it will be fully sexual. She’ll just stage a big fight about something, storm off and make a beeline for him. You’ll be home alone with the kids and knowing exactly what is going down. New Year’s Eve is just one of those “the rules don’t apply” nights of the year.

She was having a good time, she had a few drinks, they were dancing, the ball dropped, it was meant to just be a little kiss, but then it wasn’t and “I don’t know. It just happened.”

So dig up the dirt and blow it all into the open as soon as possible. I’m told there’s quite a sizable divorce filing spike in early January each year. Tick Tock.

Oh No, Not Again

Jennifer had a mammogram a week ago. Having been through two false alarm / benign biopsy experiences, I really don’t react with back-flips of joy when she has to have a mammogram. Asked if she wanted me to come, said she’s be fine, nothing I would be able to really do/see anyway. It’s just a mammogram.

So I timed my gym for the day with her mammogram and just pedalled particularly fast. When I was done, she was done. The Tech said it all looked fine but would be seen by a Radiologist for follow up. Great, that’s over, and we went out for lunch.

Except the Radiologist didn’t like the look of something, and she went back today for another mammogram.

This time I went. There was nothing I really got to do or see other than sitting in the waiting room. I read a book for fifteen minutes and she was back out again. Once again the Tech said it all just looks like the same calcification’s they’ve seen before, nothing to worry about. Obviously all gets to be seen by a Radiologist and follow up blah blah blah.

Great, that’s over, and we went out for lunch.

Look I know… second worse case scenario if it’s really bad they will catch something early and I think Jennifer would just say, let’s just be done with it and go the double mastectomy and reconstruction route. Lots of pain and recovery, but 6-12 months later life would be back to normal with a justifiable boob job added to the mix.

Really worst case scenario there’s a horrible slow death from cancer. I’d stay with her to the end and get through it and be strong and all that. I know I would. Being an attention whore I’d write about it and eventually find someone new. I’d be okay.

I think it was ten years ago we had the first breast cancer stare… as in idiots mailed the mammogram report to our house that said MALIGNANT. Jennifer was a bawling wreck for nights on end and I was a mess too, I just was full on coping with her being a wreck that I couldn’t really do anything. I was simply terrified she was going to die and leave me all alone with two little girls.

Anyway, we’ve grown. If it’s malignant, we just move forward and face what comes. I think Jennifer almost thinks of that first wrong diagnosis as a semi-near death experience… after that, in terms of health she’ll cope with whatever. For myself, no matter the outcome I’ll be okay. Either she’ll be totally fine, I’ll end up with a wife with a justifiable boob job, or I’ll find someone new.

So I’ll be fine.


Just fine.

Totally fine.


“Oh no, not again” reference… (Geeks only!)

EDIT:  Same benign things they’re seen before. Repeat mammogram in six months.

Or Were You Looking At The Woman In The Red Dress?

Arthur Dent: “You know, it’s at times like this, when I’m trapped in a Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep space that I really wish I’d listened to what my mother told me when I was young.”

Ford Prefect: “Why, what did she tell you?”

Arthur: “I don’t know, I didn’t listen.”

A couple interesting comments on Girl Thinking About Having Coffee With Plate Spinning Ex-Boyfriend. Obviously everyone was rolling their eyes at the Bride having an ex(?) Friend With Benefits as a groomsman. To her credit, Sparrow did try and warn the groom…

Sparrow:   This is the indirect warning.
Boy, “So, can you tell me anything about the guys my girlfriend was going out with?”
Me, “Well, you’re the first one I haven’t tried to warn her about.”
Please note: if you are the one bright moment in a dating history filled with sleazeballs, tread very, very carefully.

More directly?
A little while later, after all hanging out at an activity, girl is off flirting with this guy. (The guy works there). I mention to her boyfriend, “Um, don’t want to be the one to tell you this, but about your girlfriend – ”
Him, “I don’t want to hear it about my girlfriend.”
I gave up.

Anna:  Another example of a direct, last-ditch effort warning:
“Your fiance propositioned my husband last time he saw her, and flashed your best friend on Skype. She claims to be a sex addict on her blog. You’re a strong Christian and I know you don’t want to end up divorced. Hubs and I think she’ll have trouble staying faithful. She needs a lot more counseling if you still intend to marry her.”

Him, “She’s in a good church and has a great mentor. Does Hubs want to be a groomsman?”

Me: *facepalm*

Athol:  So that got me thinking.

(1) Have you ever warned someone not to get married? If so, why?

(2)  Did someone warn you not to get married… and turned out they were right?

Love to hear your answers in the comments.

Preselection For Married Guys

Preselection is a tricky element for a married man to master.

Basically the more women that are interested in you, the better. If your wife sees some hot blond talking with you, slapping you on the forearm and laughing just a little too much… your wife is going to view her as being interested in you. So it’s tempting to create situations where your wife sees other women paying attention to you. Usually early attempts to make this happen simply turn into you hitting on another woman in front of your wife, and instead if your wife being attracted more… she’s just mad.

If you’re single and trying to meet women, then yes, you need to be active in approaches toward them. The bold confident approach is much better than being passive. However for married guys, you’ve already met a woman, so you’re not meant to be actively looking for another one. Thus you need to be somewhat passive and let them come to you.

The trick is to be generally attractive, engaging and playfully fun with your interactions with women… and importantly, most women you’re coming into contact with. Plus don’t ignore other men either. You’re just like this with everyone, it’s your personality to be magnetic and Alpha. You’re not trying to actively target someone to escalate. You’re just “the sort of guy that’s attractive to women”. Thus when women are attracted to you, the cause is your attractiveness and not you being disloyal. You weren’t out looking for anyone in particular, they came to you.

Your wife knowing other women want you is a very strong Alpha Trait presence. The balance of being loyal and not actively seeking women to escalate with is a strong Beta Trait presence. She’ll be turned on, but also feel you’re safe enough to trust and give you her all. Your wife wants to believe that you’re not going to dump (or cheat on) her on a whim, but push comes to shove, you’ll end up with a new woman easily.

The downside is without active approaches, the level of attractiveness you need to reach the threshold where other women approach you, is going to be higher. So if say she’s an 8, if you’re a 7 she’s not interested no matter what. If you’re an 8, nothing will happen until you make a move on her and start actively trying to engage her. If you’re a 9, you won’t need to make a move on her, she’ll seek you out.

So if your wife sees another woman being interested in you and you’re equal Sex Rank to her, your wife suspects you made a move on her. If your wife sees another woman being interested in you and you’re higher Sex Rank than her, your wife just thinks this is the sort of thing that happens when you have a hot husband.

On the flip side, being married is usually a Preselection boost in the eyes of other women. It’s not uncommon for freshly married guys to find themselves getting hit on more than they were before they were married.

Anyway the solution, single or married, is just the same. Make yourself more attractive. You catch more with honey and all that.