There is No Female Action Plan

A mildly disjointed collection of rantings trying to bitchslap the proper understanding of what running the MAP is, into the minds of the wives on the forum. Somehow there’s this understanding that the Red Pill is in fact pink, and all they need to do is grow long hair, put on some lipstick, fall on their backs with their legs apart, and their Alpha Prince will cum.

Except all that happens when they do that is their fat, underemployed ManBetaPig just enjoys the sex and then lights up a joint and plays Diablo 3 for five hours. I exaggerate to be sure, but that’s the essential problem.

So… ranting…

There is no “FAP”

The only difference between what a man needs to be doing and what a woman needs to be doing is what creates a dopamine response in the opposite sex.

Male Alpha = more dominance, power, strength

Female Alpha = more flirty, girly appearance

That’s about it.

If you’re a female running the MAP, you should have men other than your husband throwing IOI’s at you. If you don’t, you’re not yet in Phase Three.

Why the “default yes” is a bad thing

It’s basically like dumping three tons of fish into the dolphin tank at SeaWorld and wondering why the dolphins are no longer interested in doing any tricks.

If your wife is into you, she doesn’t need a rule to want to fuck you.

Serendipity gets it

 Serendipity: Yeah I learned the hard way that sex = everything is fine, but even when he wasn’t getting sex he didn’t seem to care and just gave up.  MMSL helped me understand WHY I didn’t want sex with my husband for so long when early on in the relationship I definitely did. I couldn’t understand what changed and lack of sex was something my husband complained about forever and I always thought it was the kids, being tired or whatever it was. Now I know why.

So despite my FAP I had to add in an ultimatum because there was some medical involved (anxiety/depression) and possible porn addiction (since deleted and seems done with).  If anything the FAP, some therapy and this site just really made me realize what my worth really is and that I was/am doing everything to fix my marriage and relationship. Been very loyal when other women may have had an affair of some sort.

Athol’s comment: “The central theme of MMSL is to get yourself into a position where you’re so valuable as a potential partner, that you no longer are required to tolerate being in a relationship with a crappy partner who refuses to handle their own shit.”

That’s exactly what did it for me. I got fed up. I was fixing my shit and now it was his turn or else I was leaving.

Female desire is reactive, but…

Female desire is reactive… but there are other men out there she can react to.

If a male 6 watches his wife transform from a 6 –> 7 –> 8  and does nothing about fixing his attractiveness and handling his shit, he’ll eventually lose her to another man if she decides to pull the trigger.

Maybe he does shape up / get to the doctor / get a job / stop being an ass…. maybe he won’t.

If he does, great. If not, well she can collect child support and be better placed to find another man.

That should all sound very familar.

If he’s freaked out and going full Beta…

When he goes full-bore Betamax you bring him to MMSL. Then he takes it all seriously because he has a pathway he can learn to walk where she ends up staying with him.

All the husbands brought to MMSL by their wives come freaking out and wanting to go full Beta. Then they learn.

Wives must work on looking hot

She absolutely must run girl game and spend more time at the gym no matter what.

Unless she maximizes her overall attractiveness to men in general, any ultimatum she pulls will be less likely to succeed.

Her hot gym body is her leverage.

If his dick doesn’t work

The ultimatum is you demanding he go to the doctor to get checked out

Stop listening to the men on the forum, they aren’t your husband

A forum wife who has a crappy husband, listening to a forum husband in a sexless marriage, can’t model her MAP on what he wants his wife to do. The problems are different.

It’s always the unhappy spouse that comes to the forum. The unhappy spouse always has to do the same thing – become attractive and strong enough to gain leverage in their own relationship and then if required, force the issue.

Why sexually rejecting  totally crappy husbands can be helpful over the long term

It’s not “rejecting him”.

You are making yourself more attractive – improving the quality of the cheese so to speak – and rewarding him when he acts in a positive manner.

“No X until Y” is training him to act in a certain way…. but so is “Yes X even if there’s no Y” training him to act a certain way.  It’s just training him to act a different way.

Most of the forum wives doing the “default yes” thing are simply running a variant on a covert contract. “I will X and you will Y” and then because X is given out before Y… Y doesn’t have to happen… so the wife gets pissed off and then can’t help but lower her sexual response to him.

Most women unwittingly ruin the sex as a reward by being so shitty in bed during the sex, that it becomes a form of punishment rather than a reward. Most guys would rather have 12 sexual experiences a year where the girl was really into it, than 120 sexual experiences a year where she lies there disgusted and immobile.

Offer high quality sex for his good behavior.

There’s no X until Y

I mean seriously. Would any of you as a mother walk into a grocery store and hand the kids a bag of candy and say “please be good” and then no matter how bad they were in the grocery store, do the same thing week after week after week?

If you’re a First Officer you’re meant to be able to stand in for the Captain if need be. Get a backbone, have some pride in yourself, have some standards. Stop this Nice Girl crap.

You wouldn’t let a random douchebag screw you, so why do you lower yourself to let the douchebag you live with do it?

Could you ever imagine Jennifer tolerating me being a drunken, unwashed, broke, loser and still fucking me every day? If you can, she wants to talk to you lol. We hold each other to high but not unreasonable standards. I am a better man for her and she’s a better woman for me.

That’s the MMSL model. I’ve been ranting this for over three years. I’m at a loss as to how my message is so distorted on this forum.

Jennifer: Damn straight. That is all.

Comments

  1. Hallelujah and amen.

  2. >I’m at a loss as to how my message is so distorted on this forum.

    I expect it’s mainly the result of women trying to change your exact words just that little bit enough that they can justify not doing the work needed for the results wanted.

  3. Shanna_banana says:

    YES. That was a good post.

    My husband is washed (LOL), makes money, is a great dad, hard worker, good looking, etc. So that is why I thought the “default yes” should apply to me. I thought I was giving him some low hanging fruit to practice on. It did not work, as you could have told me.
    I did get hotter, made my demands and stopped rewarding smushy/wimpy/un-Captainy behavior. I was stuck in wondering how much of the bad/wimpy/beta I had caused with my fiesty personality. Moot point. He has the power to Captain up, and he did.
    I am happy to report things are better than ever.

    Ladies, follow this advice. It works.

  4. Arlequin says:

    Tough Love….A.K. style…

    Athol, your new nickname is ‘The Assault Weapon’

  5. There is a female action plan. It’s just hard to see it when your model is that the man has to be the leader, but that’s the goal not necessarily the beginning.

    Most dissatisfied women tear their men down. If a massive amount of shit-testing makes him come around and alpha up that might be a working strategy, but most men won’t. If you assume that women can be as responsible as a man they can also build the relationship from the ground up.

    There´s another blogger “What Women Never Hear” that has written extensively about that. In short, as I understand it, it’s about being a lady and holding him to your expectations. As in your model, she has to become a lady first (FAP). I don’t think it is about using sex as much as changing perspective from running wild with shit-testing to a frame of building the man you want. Since most women want a man with self confidence, they have to build self-confidence in their man rather than tearing it down when they are dissatisfied.

  6. Johan Gra is right. A conceivable FAP would have to include being sexier, but also building the man up, explicitly seeking out his guidance and instruction until he becomes used to leading . Make him understand you want him to lead and that you want to be led.

  7. “The central theme of MMSL is to get yourself into a position where you’re so valuable as a potential partner, that you no longer are required to tolerate being in a relationship with a crappy partner who refuses to handle their own shit.” <—- Straight talk every married couple needs to hear.

  8. Athok_Kay said : Most of the forum wives doing the “default yes” thing are simply running a variant on a covert contract. “I will X and you will Y” and then because X is given out before Y… Y doesn’t have to happen… so the wife gets pissed off and then can’t help but lower her sexual response to him.

    You hit the nail on the head. I thought I was providing the carrot, the encouragement, for him to step up. In reality, it’s always been a convert contract.

    Athol said: Could you ever imagine Jennifer tolerating me being a drunken, unwashed, broke, loser and still fucking me every day?

    This is the problem for a lot of wives. He isn’t a drunken, unhygienic, video playing, broke, fat husband with a bad job. He helps at home. He works hard. He just isn’t making decisions. He just isn’t acting like a Captain. For a lot of us, your description would be what pushes us to give him an ultimatum. But for some of us, him not being able to decide where we’re going for dinner or get aggressive in the bedroom feels like something that can be fixed without an ultimatum. It feels so extreme.

    Sex without the hot gym body and sex without being in a place to walk away is us not wanting to do the hard stuff and hoping he’ll come around anyway. You’re right; it’s nothing but a convert contract.

    We can’t imagine ourselves telling our husbands, our hard working, helping at home, good jobbed, good looking husbands that if they can’t step up with the alpha and become Captains, we’re leaving. There would be no support from family and friends. They would accuse you of everything under the sun because if he’s nice looking with a good job and helping at home…why AREN’T you happy? What’s WRONG with you?

    We have to find that place in ourselves where we KNOW it’s okay to expect more from our marriages and we KNOW we deserve it. We have to find that place where we KNOW we are worth it and we are ready to walk away to get it. And then get busy doing it.

    Welcome to the red pill Ladies.

  9. Maybe the message got distorted from the men in the forum and on this blog. The way a lot of men comment, they make it seem like all they really want is a warm blow-up doll.

  10. Changed Man says:

    Welcome to Hypergamy 101.

    If you’ve got the prefect husband, good provider and excellent Dad, but he’s not a natural alpha and never will be, have some maturity and a modicum of decency and do the right thing. Yes, you deserve to have the alpha captain that you need, there’s no right or wrong to it, it’s just how we’re wired… but please don’t cheat on the guy.

    Have an adult conversation, explain what you need, give him the phase 4 in a respectful and loving way, and if he can’t do it, have the integrity to end the relationship well before you start another. Don’t take his kids away from him, don’t rape him financially. Show him some measure of respect for the love, support, and time he invested in you.

    If the guy’s an abusive, sadistic asshole, then all bets are off… frickin’ nuke him.

  11. I’m at a loss as to how my message is so distorted on this forum.

    Hamster stampede. It happens all the time.

    I’ve been kicking this around with Mrs. Ironwood a lot, lately, and she’s had a lot of helpful stuff to say on the subject that has helped some of my readers out. In particular, the idea of “extending an invitation” to your Betacized husband . . . that is, laying out a proposal to action, indicate your expectations for a successful completion, and then rewarding success greatly . . . and effort significantly. The hard part for most women these days lies in being able to then sit back and be patient while their husband stumbles through it the first few times. And the proper response if he fails to accept the invitation.

    I hesitate to bring it up, but I have noticed that one factor in Betacization is the feeling in the husband that his wife has lost faith in him and his ability to be the man they both want him to. If you want him to come out of his Beta coma, you have to give him the space and opportunity to do so without judgment or criticism as he flails around. That means biting your tongue on criticism of his efforts, and expressing genuine support and enthusiasm for when he gets it right. Tit for tat.

    But you can’t drag him out of Beta, you have to lure him. It’s hard, but it can be done. Once he sees that you aren’t going to jump on his shit because he didn’t do something the way you wanted him to, he’s going to be more confident and less fearful.

    Practice saying these words, it might help:

    “I have every confidence in your ability.” Say it out loud. With a straight face. Say it and mean it Then go say it to his face the next time he asks you a question. And mean it. Then, the next time one of your girlfriends says something catty about your man, tell her “I have every confidence in him.” Because if you are telling him that you support him and then are turning around and talking shit about him to your grooming circle, you’re not going to believe it. And if you don’t believe it, he won’t.

    If that means that you have to wordlessly accept his dreadful efforts the first few times around, then remember that this is a process. No one expects you to drop forty pounds and six dress sizes overnight, try to have reasonable expectations about your husband as he struggles with breaking his Beta. Extend an invitation, reward, and work on making yourself hotter than a two-dollar pistol. That means work on your skills, not just your appearance. Read that dreadful “50 Shades” if you feel you need inspiration, but try not to apply the whole Billionaire Dark Prince expectation to your husband . . . he probably has a ways to go before he gets there.

    As Mrs. I says, “Find the right man, then commit to him to be the right woman. Then be that woman. If you found the right man, if you do that he’ll become the Right Man.”

  12. Changed man said, “If you’ve got the prefect husband, good provider and excellent Dad, but he’s not a natural alpha and never will be, have some maturity and a modicum of decency and do the right thing. Yes, you deserve to have the alpha captain that you need, there’s no right or wrong to it, it’s just how we’re wired… but please don’t cheat on the guy.”

    If a woman has all that already she’d be hard pressed to find another man as good, especially if he is the father to her children. Always count your blessings and count the attributes of your husband. I’m flabbergasted that any woman would walk away or cheat on a man like that. There are plenty of single or divorced women who wants the a man like that, the man you have. Never forget that.

  13. Lainey said: If a woman has all that already she’d be hard pressed to find another man as good, especially if he is the father to her children. Always count your blessings and count the attributes of your husband. I’m flabbergasted that any woman would walk away or cheat on a man like that. There are plenty of single or divorced women who wants the a man like that, the man you have. Never forget that.

    Thank you Lainey, for telling me I should happy with I have and not aspire to having the marital relationship I want. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Count your blessings and ignore the things you want/need to live a full and abundantly with your man. This judgement makes it so hard for women who want more. It is not wrong to want more from your husband and marriage.

    Lainey said : If a woman has all that already she’d be hard pressed to find another man as good

    She wouldn’t be hard pressed if she was fit and had good girl game.

  14. @Red

    What is it that you want or feel is lacking at this time? Did he used to provide that but now things have changed? I’m not asking this with judgement. I’m honestly curious about your thoughts.

    @Ian

    Bingo – Bongo.

    You know how you’re supposed to give yourself positive affirmations? (A concept I really believe in.)

    I think the same thing happens when you express positive or negative affirmations or statements about another person. I think it is really imperative for both parties in a relationship, especially one that is having a rough patch, to frame their thoughts and statements about each other in as positive a light as possible moment to moment, even if either one of them is not quite there yet, or where the other would like them to be at the moment.

    If you look for bad, you’ll find it. Look for good you’ll find that too. If you bad mouth each other, even just inside your head, you’re wiring your brain to have nothing but negative associations with your partner. That will then come spilling out in behaviors and you can very easily get caught up in a negativity hurricane, tit for tat and spiral around the bowl.

    As you said, one of the most insidious, and I think destructive to themselves, things that women are particularly inclined to engage in is the bitch-fest with the other girls about their men. Guys at the office might crack a joke or two about their particular level of “marital bliss” but there is no denying chicks will sit there in the break room or out to lunch and just tear their men apart in front of each other. Each woman reinforcing and legitimizing the others indignation and level of outrage at their men’s “crimes.” Usually this mental circle jerk of pent up anger and faux indignation is led by some frumpy, fat, page boy haircut wearing, office mother hen / queen bee. The Lolz!!!!!!!!!!!

    To what good end? None. If you find yourself in these kinds of conversations, excuse yourself. If you spent your lunch hour hanging with the girls from the office getting all fired up and bashing your guy, then you stewed about it the rest of the afternoon, what do expect your level of “love” is going to be when you arrive home? Exactly. Why do that to yourself and to him? The answer – there is no good reason.

    A little dose of compassion for each other wouldn’t hurt either.

    Reminds me of a couple posts by the Private Man where he was encouraging chicks to try to find at least one positive thing to say or think about the men they run across day to day as an effort to train the brain to be more positive in general about the opposite sex. Same thing works for guys too.

  15. FeralFelis says:

    ZLX1-
    The Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon (also called “red car phenomenon” says that what we expect to see, or what we make ourselves aware of, we will then see everywhere. So your point about LOOKING for good and then finding it (or vice versa) is spot on. I’ve heard it said that the eyes are really organs of perception; the brain tells the eyes what to see, and the eyes (and presumably ears, etc) go looking (no pun intended).

  16. Acksiom says:

    >Maybe the message got distorted from the men in the forum and on this blog. The way a lot of men comment, they make it seem like all they really want is a warm blow-up doll.

    Nah, that’s just you:

    >The Baader-Meinhoff phenomenon (also called “red car phenomenon” says that what we expect to see, or what we make ourselves aware of, we will then see everywhere.

  17. In support of Red, she’s at MMSL trying to lure her husband into an exciting, passionate marriage. That’s not an imposition on him, he would be a big winner too. She hasn’t left or cheated on him. And yes, plenty of women would snap up her husband, the good, dependable man, if she left him. But that doesn’t mean they’d keep having sex with him a year into it (unless he changed in the ways she wants him to anyway).

    She (and the rest of us in the same boat) are absolutely not out to find the lazy exit. She’s trying to give him something absolutely amazing, and the thing standing in the way is that he doesn’t see how great they can be together.

  18. And Acksiom, for what it’s worth, most of the women Athol is super frustrated with are devoting ridiculous amounts of work to making their men happy in the hopes of getting the results they want. It’s not a lack of effort, it’s that last shred of hope that the men will magically figure everything out and the couple can sail off into the sunset without anyone’s feelings getting hurt.

  19. I am very glad to see the emphasis on “No X Until Y”, because I had so many women say it as “No X”; usually resulting in my feeling LJBFed. Some even thought announcing a new man would work! Ladies, he won’t become what you want if you don’t tell him. (In one case, she would have married me if i had slept with her; started by turning down my marriage proposals, and then did not give any real signs of sexual interest that I could see, even after she told me that was what she wanted (nearly a decade later, after she married someone else and had children.)

  20. I’m not seeing what I want to see. Many men here talk like they just want a warm blow-up doll.

    I came to this site because years ago Athol and I both commented on a pro-marriage website together. When I saw feminists bashing him I thought “Hey, he must be good, let me check this out.”

    Imagine my surprise when I find that his (mostly) good advice is distorted, by the very men who say they need his help. I say mostly because I am a devout Roman Catholic, so some advice I cannot agree with.

    I think people see Athol’s advice the way they want to see it. Men comment that women just need to be responsive/crazy in bed, wear lipstick, be skinny, and greet their men with a smile and all will be good. Women are humans too, stop wanting blow up dolls.

  21. @Red- I get where you’re coming from. Sex was always a big issue in my marriage and took a lot to work through. I considered leaving and then would feel guilty because he’s “such a good guy”. However I found a few things to validate my need for sexual fulfillment. One is that even in the most seemingly patriarchal religions such as Orthodox Judaism and Islam, a woman had a right to divorce her husband if he was not sexually satisfying her. It was her right to be fulfilled; of course being patriarchal, she was rarely fully aware of this but it was on the books. Often it didn’t come up unless her husband was impotent or something extreme but still huge that it was acknowledged at all. Another validating idea was John Chapman’s book “The Five Love Languages”. He talks about how affection is one of the ways we feel loved and under that is the “dialect” of sex. The book also in gender neutral in who has what love language. You also have to remember many ppl wouldn’t judge too much if a man left his otherwise wonderful wife if she “let herself go” and no longer gave him sex. Your needs while not as embraced by society are still important.
    The caveat here though is that if you’re husband is such a good guy, he probably will be willing to work on this. If you’re church going, the idea of him taking “headship” of the marriage isn’t a far reach. If you’re not, well then it’s still pretty applicable. He stands to gain a lot from a sexually satisfied and generally happier wife. Ironically sex problems can often be very self motivating and “fun” to fix, so refusing to work on them is just ridiculous. It can take awhile but generally as long as you see ongoing improvement, it’s ok.

  22. Favorite post yet! says:

    Althol,
    This is my favorite post from your blog yet!!
    Wives need to be supportive as our men learn through this process.

    But we really need to be consistent in our feedback. I hate to equate it to kids or dogs, but we women are put into the same category (we ARE animals, after all, so we DO take to repetitive feedback). If we say Do X, Get Y, then we need to follow through by Giving Y when the husband does X, and NOT giving Y when the husband doesn’t do X. Simple as that. I love the analogy of giving the kid a bag of candy and saying “please be good.” If the kid isn’t good, you take the candy away. Simple as that…
    Men and women get what we tolerate. It really is as simple as that.

  23. Favorite post yet! says:

    BUT I should have spellchecked the first time
    Athol,
    This is my favorite post from your blog yet!!
    Wives need to be supportive as our men learn through this process.

    But we really need to be consistent in our feedback. I hate to equate it to kids or dogs, but we women are put into the same category (we ARE animals, after all, so we DO take to repetitive feedback). If we say Do X, Get Y, then we need to follow through by Giving Y when the husband does X, and NOT giving Y when the husband doesn’t do X. Simple as that. I love the analogy of giving the kid a bag of candy and saying “please be good.” If the kid isn’t good, you take the candy away. Simple as that…
    Men and women get what we tolerate. It really is as simple as that.

  24. 1 Female desire is reactive, but…

    Sometimes it does not react at all. Period. To anyone. At all.

    2 Wives must work on looking hot

    But plenty don’t ever. At all. As in “we must all pay taxes”but plenty don’t and get away with it.

    3 Offer high quality sex for his good behavior.

    This is like saying theres a return on paying your taxes. Alot of people don’t see it.

    4 There’s no X until Y

    Or in many cases there is no x. Ever. Period.

  25. Wanted to stand and applaud at this line: Most women unwittingly ruin the sex as a reward by being so shitty in bed during the sex, that it becomes a form of punishment rather than a reward.

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