Female Isolation Anxiety

Louis .C.K routine…

I think he somewhat overstates, but the takeaway is that women really do have a finely tuned radar as to whether or not they will ever let themselves be isolated with you. I don’t mean “at the movies on a date”, or “at a restaurant”, there’s other people in those locations. I mean really alone, alone. As in just you and her.

Men experience Approach Anxiety walking up to the girl, women experience Isolation Anxiety going off with the guy alone. It’s the same physiological process of fight or flight kicking in. Men are programmed to prep for a physical conflict with another man when they approach a girl. It’s not her he’s worried about, it’s her boyfriend / husband / thug that’s that problem.

What women worry about is the guy turning into a thug-bastard-man-bear-pig when they they finally let themselves be alone with him. As a result, they have an extremely high co-relation between being sexually attracted to someone and allowing themselves to be truly isolated with them. That way if the worst happens, at least it was with a male they found attractive i.e. high value. Please don’t take the mental leap between hearing me explain the factors at work and taking that as a mandate for violating consent.

What I’m saying is that if you’re a guy, if you’re with a woman who is actively displaying interest in being alone with you, even if it’s cloaked in some other activity that you’d really be doing together… she’s into you in a big way.

Then if she’s into you… you don’t have to try hard to be something or someone you’re not. She’s already got that mental “yes” inside her head giving you approval to escalate things further with her. So have fun, enjoy the date and make some moves on her with a crooked smile. She’s expecting you to.

Comments

  1. Whoa, after visitng your blog for a couple of years I have found the first thing I disagree with :)

    “I think he somewhat overstates, but the takeaway is that women really do have a finely tuned radar as to whether or not they will ever let themselves be isolated with you. I don’t mean “at the movies on a date”, or “at a restaurant”, there’s other people in those locations. I mean really alone, alone. As in just you and her.”

    First of all Luis CK got it wrong, very wrong. Men, especially the “let me ask you out” kind of men are faaaaar from being the greatest danger to women. It’s pretty much just misandrist feminist rhetoric, and it is sad that our friend Luis got tangled up in it.
    But my actual point is women don’t use their “radar” like you describe. They avoid guys with low alpha like the plague (creeps!!!), despite them being the less dangerous crowd. Instead they are attracted to “bad boys” and often go out with agressive types who do hurt them. That “radar” of women is filtering the creeps, not the “bad guys”, to their own detriment.

  2. @Deansdale – women assume *all* men are potentially dangerous. They then screen the unattractive ones out to never be isolated with.

    I get that Louis .C.K isn’t exactly the poster child for understanding the Red Pill… he’s almost there, but always turns inward and self-loathes at the last minute.

  3. boombacca says:

    @Deansdale ” They avoid guys with low alpha like the plague (creeps!!!), despite them being the less dangerous crowd”…
    If they avoid they don’t have to filter.

    “Instead they are attracted to “bad boys” and often go out with aggressive types who do hurt them. That “radar” of women is filtering the creeps, not the “bad guys”, to their own detriment.”…

    I think you prove Athol’s and Louis’s point, That women filter.

  4. PastorofMuppets says:

    @Deansdale

    Complaining about the lack of literal accuracy in a comedian’s act is Example 1 of not getting the point. Of course it’s hyperbole. Of course it’s an exaggeration. Those are among main pillars of comedy. He’s exaggerating to make a point.

    As for who’s more dangerous to women …. I dunno. The kind of guys who get caught with three women bound in the basement, or arrested for a series of torture killings, or abduct a little girl off the street, can’t often be described as “alphas.” So-called alphas don’t need to stalk, abduct, rape, etc. More often than it, it’s the entitled guy who’s not getting any.

    The rest is just boilerplate “Nice guy” lament about girls only wanting the alpha bad boy a-holes who’ll eventually hurt them while nice beta guys get left behind. But don’t fret, nice guy, because once they’re used up by the alphas they’ll come crawling to you, and then you’ll have your revenge, right?

  5. You want a red pill comic…Bill Burr.

  6. Milf-in-Training says:

    I don’t know about how other women feel, but Athol has me right.

    I’m always pre-screening men. From the first look, even the first time I visit a dating site profile I’m single) I’m asking myself “do I want to have sex with this man?” If the answer is no, it’s on to the next.

    At each step of the way, I ask the question again, and end things if the answer becomes no, I end the relationship. I do not lead men on, ever. If I am alone with a man, you can bet I’ve already decided I want sex with him.

  7. ar10308 says:

    Bill Burr is the most Red Pilled comic out their. Louis CK is pretty Blue Pill.

  8. Bill Burr is wonderful.

  9. How do you know she just doesn’t see you as a friend and doesn’t want to just hang out? I’ve had girls who turned me down for dates but still wanted to spend tons of time alone with me.

  10. @Keen They might see you as harmless, and want to play you into being their beta orbiter.

  11. @RedPillWifey’s right, I’ve been through that as well during my single days, with women who were OK with being alone with me, but had no sexual interest in me at all. They see such men as harmless male girlfriends, aka Beta Orbiters. Nothing to do about it but refuse to hang out with them if you want more. Be busy, have something else to do when they want to “hang”. The worst thing you could do is agree to hang out with them in hopes they’ll change their mind about you – they won’t.

    Learn to be more assertive, pick up some single man Game, and you’ll avoid the beta orbiter trap.

  12. Saw this show not long after you used him in another blog post. Watched him laughing and thinking… I’m strangely attracted… is this that version of Alpha I should be attracted to? until he did exactly that self loathing thing you mentioned. Especially when he started in on his penchant for sitting… ick and I didn’t find it funny either. I’m off to check out Bill Burr.

  13. I just appreciate that I read this when I did – that you wrote this when you did. A friend of mine was hit by her husband 4 years ago and is still with him because she says she’s forgiven him – he’s done everything possible to work out his anger, has gotten professional help, and is still trying to earn her trust back but she hasn’t truly moved on. Yesterday, she told me she still doesn’t trust him and I asked her how often she’s alone with him – really alone – even without her large Mastiff who follows her everywhere…

    She said never. She always has a buffer. If her dog isn’t in the room, her cat is in her lap and she finds excuses to end their rare date nights at his or her parents’ house. I’m trying to encourage her to allow herself to be completely alone with him – even for half an hour – and she says she doesn’t think she can.

    If that isn’t proof, I don’t know what is.

  14. @Kate – you can bet that the marriage is sexually dead then… or close to it.

  15. @Athol – Sadly, you would be right. I’ve just finished writing her an email hoping to nudge her in the right direction – containing links to mmsl, of course :)

  16. @Kate – that’s going to be a tough one. Have to backtrack to find and fix whatever led to that incident, plus undo all her additional resistance from that. Plus he’ll likely be chest deep into a porn/masturbation issue now as well.

    I suspect that they are locked into the post-incident pattern of interaction as a problem as much as the original problem was.

    It’s complicated to unpick, but not impossible… assuming he’s able to be consistently non-violent.

  17. Paul Rivers says:

    While I have to mostly agree with the point of the article – that a girl who’s alone with you who’s interested in you wants something romantic / physical to happen, I also agree with the other posters that the “alone == dangerous” is…rather absurd.

    #1 – as other posters said, I’ve definitely found that a woman also has no problem being alone when she sees you as a safe – both in the “physical attack” sense and in the “not someone she wants to sleep with” sense. A girl who tried to turn me into a beta-orbiter would call me up and ask if she could crash at my place because she worked close by and didn’t want to drive all the way home then back in the morning. When I realized what was going on I looked back and realized that this had often been true – a girl in high school would talk about how she was nervous about spending time with a guy she liked, but hanging out with me and a friend of mine (she wasn’t interested in either of us) she had no problem with.

    With generalizations there are no absolutes, and certainly in other circumstances (high school) things can be very different.

    But it’s been my experience that the girl most likely interested in you will either be outwardly nervous about coming over to your place, or excited but a little nervous. If her attitude is totally and completely no big deal (unless she’s been to your place several times before) – she’s probably not interested in you at all.

    #2 –

    There’s no doubt that women put thought into wondering if a guy is potentially dangerous.

    But – similar to what a few other posters said, it’s…always been my experience that the emphasis on the physical danger aspect this is mostly cultural rhetoric and way overhyped regarding what women are actually nervous about. That’s never, ever to say that it isn’t a concern – but it’s often the named concern when the more pressing concerns are more difficult to explain.

    At one time I was able to get a job with a bunch of really, really attractive women – many of them both physically and mentally (they were really enjoyable and fairly considerate people to hang around, smart, etc). They would often express acting like other women did and having feelings of apprehension, etc, like the women I was used to hanging out with – but surprisingly, they did not attribute their feelings to “physical danger” like other women always seemed to.

    It seemed like they would experience fear, but for totally different reasons than the physical danger aspect:

    1. When emotional thinking isn’t sure what it should do, or what it wants it do, and it has to make a big decision (should I start dating this guy or sleeping with him?) it feels fear. When she knows how she feels about things – whether she wants things to go somewhere, or doesn’t, it doesn’t generate that feeling of fear.

    2. Sometimes – especially in more sexually restrictive cultures like catholicism or conservative christianity – girls (and sometimes boys to) are subtly taught that anything that might lead to sex is “bad” and you should be afraid of it. It’s not taught as “it’s bad because it’s sex (usually)” – people just end up imprinted that being alone with a girl/boy leads the “bad” and scary things happening. Social shaming causes them to feel scared about spending time alone with someone of the opposite gender. Sometimes this can be a parent yelling at them when they’re younger (imagine a nun get angry and going “you can’t let the boys and girls be alone together!”), or classmates teasing them (oh look, johnny and susie are alone over by the jungle gym! johnny and susie in a tree…), or social pressure that you’re “betraying” the group you’re with in some way if you leave the group to go do something else.

    3. She’s not sure enough about how attractive you are, she’s afraid she’ll sleep with you then regret it the next day.

    4. She’s afraid she’ll sleep with you but she’ll do it “to soon” and lose her power in the relationship, or you won’t respect her and won’t want to date her or something.

    5. Being alone with you, she leaves the comfort of her social group where she can rely on other people’s cues to make her decisions. She doesn’t necessarily think about it this way – she just knows she’s more comfortable when other people are around.

    6. Sometimes she’s actually afraid that she’ll go through all her mental calculations, feelings, and wondering if she’s going to get social crap for it – then something *won’t* happen. Like anyone, she doesn’t want to emotionally get built up for something to happen – then have it go nowhere.

    7. She’s afraid of being stuck with you and the situation be uncomfortable, but not having a socially easy reason to leave. If you’ve ever been on a first date from the online personals, you probably know what I mean – for some reason the girl prefers to let the conversation go on forever, then complain about it later, rather than just saying “thanks for coming out, but I have to go”. How culturally common is the sitcom theme where they’ll have a friend call them pretending to have an emergency in the middle of a date in case they want an excuse to leave? Same kind of thing.

    8. She’s afraid you’ll make a move, she’ll turn you down, and you’ll be mad at her or things will be uncomfortable. I don’t mean in a physical safety way – but girls often seem to be super hesitant to go into any situation that might be emotionally unpleasant.

    There’s probably more, but these are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. They all cause a feeling of fear – and the easiest social explanation is to chalk the fear up to physical danger. Often physical danger is often used to promote a message that sex is bad – the most obvious examples being 70’s horror movies where the monster would kill the girls having sex, but the “good” girl who wasn’t having sex would survive. Or sometimes it’s more of a subtle “bad things will happen” – in the movie “Dirty Dancing” the girl who tells her girlfriend that she’s going to sleep with her boyfriend walks in on her boyfriend having sex with someone else, after you see this theme happen all the time it becomes clear that “being explicit about sex” == bad things are going to happen.

    So really, I’m agreeing with the main point of the article – if the girl is willing to be alone with you in a place where something can physically happen between the two of you, she’s into you (or – like I said – she’s decided she’s completely not into you at all so you’re “safe”). I remember arguing with my cousin (a girl) that as a guy it didn’t really matter how my place looked, as long as it didn’t look bad – by the time the girl is coming over to my place she’s already deeply invested in deciding if things are going to go somewhere romantically or physically. And again and again it’s proven to me to be true.

    But I really disagree with the premise that her feeling of fear is always – or even often – directly related to her concerns that the guy will flip out and attack her. It’s definitely something she thinks about – don’t get me wrong – but even the majority of the fear or apprehension she feels is about other things in the situation.

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