If You Really Really Love Me

From the forum…

Kalda:  Now, almost three months later, I am doing better and still making progress. The biggest improvements have been physical. I’m in the best shape of my life and maintaining 5-6 workouts a week while cutting back on the junk food. She, however, is the heaviest she has ever been.

My wife bounces between commenting on how good I look in positive ways and expressing concern I will leave her for a younger or fitter woman. I’m looking for some ideas on how to respond to the latter comments. I’ve told her I’ll support any positive health changes she wants to make when she has brought up exercise or diet, but when she talks about me leaving her I just laugh it off. Tonight she said something and laughing it off felt awkward and she seemed sad. Is there a good way to redirect those comments to flirt or keep a positive vibe between us?

Athol:  This is her Loyalty Testing you.

This is actually a pretty serious thing. If she’s really starting to dread that there’s nothing she can do to keep you, she’ll give up on the relationship. So whether she starts checking out of the relationship because she’s unhaaaaaappppppy and about to Eat, Pray, Love an exit, or she starts checking out of the relationship because she thinks you’re going to dump her, doesn’t matter… she’s going to start withdrawing from you, or even start looking for someone who she can jump ship to before you pull the trigger.

In fact you might be a sizzling 9 and her a 7 and she might move sideways to some guy who is just 7 himself to avoid the pain of you smashing her to the ground.

You trying to laugh it off is the exact wrong thing to do, because to her, this is a really unfunny situation. When you laugh, she experiences it as you laughing at her predicament. She’s looking for loyalty and your emotional involvement with her, instead you’re displaying high value and detachment from her.

This is why the pure Alpha approach utterly fails in long term relationships. You can pretty much set your watch on a six month timer for pure Alpha to just blow it all up.


You do two things to pass this test.

(1)  State clearly what your standards are for her behavior as a wife. Stuff like her sexual interest in you, appearance, general work ethic. Make them all reasonably high standards, but by no means impossible. Something that she would have to apply herself to get done, but not kill herself to consistently do in reality.

(2)  Say that as long as she does (1), she never need fear you leaving her, or cheating on her. If she does right by you, you will do right by her. You need to say this with complete conviction and emotional content. You can also say that you know you could find someone else if you had to, but you want it to be her.

What this amounts to is an all purpose, “There is no X until Y” variant. X is the (2) and the Y is the (1).

This all sounds horribly manipulative I know, but what it sums down to for her is this….

(A)  She’s with a guy hotter than her.

(B)  He demands her best of her.

(C)  He’s loyal to her.

Which all in all doesn’t sound like a bad arrangement.  The trick for the guy pulling this off though is this…

…there is no trick. You have to believe it and commit to it, to sell it. What you’re saying is that if someone hotter than your wife comes along and makes a play for you, you’ll just enjoy it as compliment and that’s as far as it goes.

Anyway… Steel Panther video time… kinda like this, just bring it down a couple of notches.


…okay so not very much like Steel Panther. My bad.


  1. Soooo– can this work in the reverse? I’m a wife who’s gotten into my best shape, lost lots of weight, work out… and yes, the sex has improved for us because I finally told him if we continued to live like platonic roommates, I’d have nothing to stay for once the kids were gone in a year… I also asked him for a D/s relationship. What more could a man want? A sexier, hotter wife who’s willing to be first mate to his captain? He doesn’t see it that way…

    I’m not disillusioned either. I know I look good now (for my age, and friends of my teens claim I look 10 years younger). There is hardly a social setting we go to that I don’t feel men’s approving looks. It’s heady stuff, because I feel I have my mojo back, like I remember feeling in my 20s… relatively speaking. Men my age and a bit younger approve, smile, flirt, and compliment. They hug A LOT harder. I’ve not responded back other than thanking for compliments… and have mentioned a few times to hubby that I’m enjoying the attention and looks I’m now getting from men (in hopes he’ll up his game)… but I’ve made no out and out threat. He trusts that I’ll stick to my vows. I hope he’s right. I truly don’t fancy starting all over with someone new.

    He’s in relatively good shape, has always had the self-discipline to work out regularly and eat to live. He’s not buff or muscular, but for 57 in good shape and health. He just prematurely lost hair, and is not the most handsome guy in face (I fell in love with him more for his strength of character and trustworthiness–important stuff, he was a great dad/provider, but without sex and good bed technique, those qualities begin to pale)… and he’s got a low sex drive (testosterone tested and checks out “normal” for a man his age) to my very high sex drive. He seems to think the effort to give me an orgasm is a special occasion type thing.

    I don’t want to leave him… we’ve got 20 years invested, and I love him. I made a commitment. But his efforts are still meager. I need/want more sex and more Alpha/dominance from him. He’s just not delivering. Can a man his age change?

    Can I do 1) above and “set the standard” with him? What I expect his sexual behavior towards me should be? This is tricky in light of me wanting him to Dom up here. Don’t want to top from the bottom. I relate to the above story in reverse, but don’t know how to make a strong enough ultimatum short of saying I’d leave.

  2. This was a great post. Very informative.

    “This is why the pure Alpha approach utterly fails in long term relationships. You can pretty much set your watch on a six month timer for pure Alpha to just blow it all up.” Why doesn’t this fact get more attention in the manosphere? It seems like most of the advice blogs don’t have more than a one night (or a few months in harem rotation) time horizon…

  3. One comment….she may NEVER love another person enough to make the effort required to
    look her best. That will mean a decision is necessary….capitulate and accept living with a
    manatee….or move on to someone who can love enough to want to put in the effort to look
    their best.

  4. Red Pill Saluki says:

    Athol, you make point #1 sound easy, and perhaps it is for relationships like this one, where the man has the upper hand so to speak. But where SR is @ equal and/or the wife feels aggrieved, communicating point #1 is a delicate task in my experience.

  5. @ Red Pill Saluki – he’s clearly trumping her Sex Rank at this point. If you don’t have the leverage of a higher Sex Rank, you’re not going to have the real ability to be demanding like that.

  6. @DD – unless you’re prepared to be able to actually leave, he knows you’re just bluffing. So he doesn’t need to do anything.

  7. Lamont Cranston says:

    “Sweetie, when I asked you to marry me, I knew we were both going to get older, and I expected our bodies to change. I didn’t expect you to say 20, that would be unfair. And I don’t WANT a 20-year-old at this point in my life. I don’t want to have to raise another one. 20-year-olds don’t even know who they ARE, let alone what they want. What I WANT is a 40-something, bangable MILF that I can count on to stand watch on the boat while we’re passage-making off Tortuga and I’m catching 40 winks below.”

  8. someguy says:

    @DD – well, worst case you could just tell him you’re unhaaaaapy, and show him this site!
    Also, act more helpless. :)

  9. @DD I’m not qualified to answer this, but if I’ve learned anything from sex, women, and interacting with people, it’s that people will act how you want them if you prompt them.

    I don’t know if you’ve had the conversations, asking “would you please bang my brains out and hold me down while you do?”, but tell him to, show him how much you like it, and act like he’s doing it even when he’s not, and I bet he’ll rise to the occassion.

    Humans are intuitive of humans. They laugh if you start laughing, even when they don’t get the joke. They’ll stop because they felt you crossing their path. They look when they sense a gaze. Humans are intune with humans – the only reason it doesn’t seem that way is because you haven’t realized that power – when you become concious of it, you can manipulate it. And once you’ve nudged him in the right direction, I think pieces will start falling into place.

    Again, not a therapist, not even well weathered in this field, so maybe you’ve gone through all this and it’s failed, but if not, it’s worth a try. Swallow your submissive tendencies for a moment to get him to act exactly like you want (dominant) and I think he will rise to the occassion, at which point you can go back into submission.

  10. Never a bad time for a Steel Panther video, though maybe Fat Girl, That She Blows might have been more topical, but I guess it would have been a bit too mean…

  11. holdingallthecards says:

    Ugh. Insecure wife terrified that husband will leave her because she’s fat and won’t put out. The Original Poster should be a bit more concerned that his wife doesn’t like sex with anyone, hot or not. Otherwise, she would take advantage of it all

  12. Carlotta says:

    This isn’t necessarily true. Women who have lost their attractiveness or are less attractive then their mates will never feel this more then when during sex. The sex itself highlights this.

    @ the orignial person asking the question. Have hope, I could have been your wife. What worked for us is that not only has my Husband led in this area (shopping for good food, joining in the exercies etc) he never made it about it being a way to leave me and is gentle and understanding that I cannot lose it all in one night. And that things come up (sick children, for a month) etc and that being close to forty I cannot do as much as I used too…yet.

    Thinking it was a first step to leaving me is what had me terrified. When he made it getting in shape is what he wants for both of us, but it is a non-negotiable to do what we want to in life calmed me down. Also that he understands it takes time and is willing to celebrate every little thing with me and help me reach the goal and hold me to it (along with taking the damm chocolate to work with him during my period so I can’t get it).

    One of the nicest things he did was tell me he didn’t want me to injure myself by doing things I wasn’t ready for, didn’t want me to starve myself but wanted to see progress. And then makes me feel beautiful as much as possible.
    Last, find her treat or kryptonite. I get my nails done every two weeks as a treat for making this a priority. I also get to do a little shopping once I reach the next big goal. It is a fun and loving thing.

    Keep in mind, she will have to prioritize. You can’t flip out on the dishes not being done if she had a crazy day and left them undone to fit in her workout.

    I will pray for you and your wife. It sounds like she is scared and feeling helpless because she cannot be “good enough” for you fast enough. Keep in mind, women compare ourselves to the best we have ever looked. I was in deep despair because of it until I realize I just had to look good for my age, right now. Not look 16 again. That I am able to do :)

    Best to you.

  13. Let me get the right. He’s worried that his fat wife isn’t invested in the relationship?

  14. @HHH – no… he’s just started turning his side of the relationship around and she thinks he’s just going to dump her or cheat on her. She’s not even going to try to get in shape if she thinks the game is already over and she lost. His frame has to be that he’ll be loyal, but he expects her to get into shape… or loyal only lasts for so long.

  15. This post really hit home with me. I lost about 75 lbs and my husband had become insecure in our relationship. Even though we both wanted me to be healthier and happier about myself he had a hard time dealing with my body changes. When we married I was about 230 lbs, smoked, and had horrible habits. I quit smoking and my husband encouraged me to be more healthier. During my weight loss my husband was working out of town and started accusing me of cheating on him. I told him that would never happen and we constantly argued about it. I tried being reassuring and told him I was unhappy and he was unhappy and feeling insecure, to quit his job and get one in town. So he did, everything was going awesome with our relationship for over a year when one night he was upset. He told me he needed to tell me something but was worried about me leaving him and hating him. I reassured him whatever he told me, he had my forgiveness but I wouldn’t commit to staying with him. So he told me while he was out of town he cheated on me. I cannot say I was shocked because of his previous irrational behavior. We did end up staying together, we have worked on both of our insecurities. But, he applied for a job out of town again and my insecurities are so high. I want him to get the job because he thinks he will like it but the past is right in front of my field of vision every time I think of him working out of town again. We are working on a plan just in case he gets the job to keep the past from repeating. Talking more about how we feel, me visiting while he is out of town, and most importantly, his job isn’t as important than our relationship. If he starts hating his job and missing us too much he is to stop working for the company he applied at and come home ASAP! Those are just a few issues we discussed that we had previously. Been married 17 years and counting with tons of ups and a few downs.

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