Why You Need The Blue Pill Too

The Red Pill is great, but we do actually need a little bit of Blue Pill too. There’s a balance… let me pull up the Hitchhikers Guide for a second…

The Belcerebons of Kakrafoon Kappa had an unhappy time. Once a serene and quiet civilization, a Galactic Tribunal sentenced them to telepathy because the rest of the galaxy found peaceful contemplation contemptuous. Ford Prefect compared them to Humans because the only way Belcerebons could stop transmitting their every thought was to mask their brain activity (or its readability) by talking endlessly about utter trivia. The other approach to dampening telepathic communication was to host concerts of the plutonium rock band Disaster Area. Thankfully, during the concert, an improbability field flipped over the Rudlit Desert, transforming it into a paradise, and cured the Belcerebons of telepathy. A Disaster Area spokesman said that this was “a good gig”.

You catch that… sentenced them to telepathy.

If you actually knew what every person was thinking 24/7, you’d quickly go insane from hearing the random thoughts of everyone else.

Imagine having sex with your partner and seeing their thoughts flick off topic for a few seconds. Without telepathy you’d just see them shut their eyes for a couple of seconds and you’d assume they were into it. Instead you’d know they were thinking about the grocery shopping, the truck, fuck my thighs hurt, I wish he’d just cum, I miss my ex-gf, that’s a big zit on her forehead, I shoulda peed before I started, shit don’t cum yet, why the fuck won’t he tie me up, it’s the top of the seventh and coming up to bat with a .365 average is… ah dammit I came, is that it?

Hell I was standing in line at Dunkin Donuts today and the three teenagers in front of me in line seemed a little on the douchebag side and I had a whole fantasy about just beating their underweight asses into the ground. Look I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying I was thinking about smacking that one first because he’d just run, one shotting the other one and then staring down the other one and saying “When you’re unconscious I’m not going to stop hitting you.”

I just need my coffee and no one gets hurt. Just be cool. We’re all going to be like little Fonzies.

Anyway, obviously I didn’t do that, because it was just a random thought, but I would imagine if they actually heard all that, standing in line would have gone differently.

The trouble is, a lot of the Red Pill approach to life assumes a near telepathic assumption of negative intentions in others. Is it often right? Sure it is. But it’s almost impossible to live happily if you are endlessly paranoid and jaded about the intentions of everyone around you. If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking… well it gets tiring being on edge after a while. Likewise every man is a third wheel seeking an opportunity and plots behind your back, pumping you for information about your woman, seeking to make a run into the endzone the moment you blink too slowly.

After living like that for long enough, well…

I see it a lot in Red Pill people. There’s often an expression of wishing they could just believe everything was fine, that love exists, that they could love and be loved… just for no reason.

I get it. I totally get it.

The standard line is that the Red Pill is the truth and the Blue Pill is the illusion. But it’s more like the Red Pill is muscle and the Blue Pill is fat.

To be sure, you want more muscle than fat on your body, but if you cut the body fat down low enough… eventually you keel over and die. You simply can’t be 0% body fat. Nor can you be 0% Blue Pill without being a rather paranoid and dysfunctional person. It’s simply not possible to sustain an endless state of assumed telepathy assuming your partner or opposite sex is out to get you.

If you see all women as gold-digging-cuckolding-false-rape-raptors, you can’t have a successful relationship with one. It’s no different than a dyed in the wool all-men-are-rapists-and-beat-women-as-a-default-setting feminist can’t have a relationship with a man. You eventually assume the worst and tear the relationship apart from the inside.

By all means pay excellent attention to building your muscle and getting your life in great shape, but at some point, you just have to say fuck it… and trust that your partner isn’t out to sneak some on the side as soon as you stumble for a moment. Obviously choosing a partner well is part of that decision matrix and having them on board with positive relationship standards matters too. But at some point you have to trust.

Jennifer and I do love each other very much… but it’s not a 100% perfect 24/7 experience. If we started fixating on the minor points of bad mood or inattention and assuming evil intent, we’d slowly tear each other apart. I’ve seen that effect play out with people snooping on their spouses over and over. I do advise at times getting your hands dirty and digging into their email and phone records to find out the truth, but I always say you should get in, get what you need and get out. Every time I see a spouse turn into a mini police state monitoring email… they slowly go insane reading and waiting for the slip up.

Do your due diligence, but at some point you have to trust.

Comments

  1. Vicomte says:

    Yes, I’m paranoid.

    But am I paranoid ENOUGH?

    -The Paranoid King

  2. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    Also, Just because I’m paranoid, doesn’t mean I’m not being followed.

    Woohoo, time to bring out the tin foil hats.

  3. NEO: So what’re you trying to tell me, that I can dodge bullets?

    MORPHEUS: No Neo, what I’m trying to tell you is that when you’re ready, you wont have to.

    Whenever I read criticism about red pill awareness it’s almost unanimously based in singular, binary absolutisms. The rationales are usually some overblown ridicule of the initial concept:

    “Game is a joke because a guy can’t possibly maintain ‘the act’ indefinitely. Sooner of later he’ll be found out to be a fraud and his dream girl will leave him.”

    “The Red Pill is a joke because it just makes guys delusional and paranoid, thinking the worst of any and every woman he meets, and making him incapable of real trust and emotional investment.”

    “Guys who use Game (but not women) are all Dark Triad sociopaths with deep psychological issues and potential George Sodinis.”

    You get the gist, but if you need more examples of Red Pill absolutism just look up any Susan Walsh post on HUS.

    The problem with your take here is the assumption that Red Pill awareness is a consuming force in a Man’s life that demands his constant effort and vigilance to defend himself against.

    Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective, but that doesn’t mean I suspect the female bank teller I’m making a deposit with is ready to rob me blind the moment I turn to walk out the door.

    Neil Strauss hinted at ‘social robots’ in The Game; guys who were nothing but Game all the time and were unable to make real emotional connections. I would argue just the opposite. The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his blue pill idealisms.

  4. I see the assumption of evil INTENT as blue pill illusion – not all lies and errors are pleasant. We live neither in a wasteland nor paradise, but blue-pill optimism makes one see either illusion.

    The red pill is that we are fallen, we rarely intend a lot of the offensive things, and even when we do, we are called to seek forgiveness – and be tolerant and forgiving of others in return.

    Illusions cannot last. Either the woman wants to let her hamster or her angel rule.

    It is dangerous to call any evil good or minimize it – that only rewards and encourages it and PREVENTS justice and forgiveness. It is different to take the blue pill and pretend the hurt and pain isn’t there and nothing happened versus taking the red pill and demanding an apology and justice, but being forgiving and merciful. It is the difference between gray and vibrant colors which will sometimes include blood red.

    ,

  5. I hope you and your wive live well past your 70s, but what then? One or both of you won’t be very “loveable”. Just make sure you have plenty of blue-pills around?

    Love (agape in greek) is a decision of the will – You can love something that does not appeal to your senses or even intellect. You can say “I love you” – in what is both selfish and selfless – because it only depends on you. “I will love you whether you are lovely or not”. That is where we learn to accept and forgive, since it is our love acting. It is also where we reform our faults out of our love for the other. And get through trials and tragedies. Accept suffering for the sake of the other.

    If the promise is merely “I will love you only as long as you are loveable – but will take blue pills as needed”, what kind of “love” is that? The “love” of a girl at a bar for the alpha or PUA? Will such a love last decades as whatever kind of love our grandparents had?

    Yet there is one illusion that is good – when years from now you see the old hag in the bed next to you, you remember your beautiful bride on the honeymoon night. And that and the other beautiful and pleasant images aren’t a “blue-pill” illusion. They are part of your life together as you grew together in love.

  6. Zelazny says:

    And deliciously brought with a hitchhikers’ guide to the galaxy-reference that will hit your brain like a pan-galactic gargleblaster at lunch.

    This is one of the small things I love about this blog.

  7. Blessed are the pessimists…for they will always be right.

    But what good is being right if you have to lose your soul in the process?

    I think inherently all people are good. The sad part is many don’t want to invest in others. How hard is it to give a stranger a smile?

    There’s a scene in fight club where Tyler Durden asks two men what they wish they did before they died.

    “Paint a self portrait.” “Build a house.”

    Every man should do everything he can to invest in himself…and then go out and build others up.

  8. Sorry Athol, this is the first post of yours that I’ve disagreed with (or maybe I think it’s just a bad analogy).

    Yes, a husband needs Aplha and Beta traits. Yes, he needs to know the difference between fitness tests and fidelity tests. But, once you’ve taken the red pill you can’t go back. No matter how much you don’t care that the steak isn’t real, you can’t be plugged back into the Matrix. It doesn’t work that way; No amount of going back to church will actually make an atheist into a believer, no matter how comforting it would be.

  9. @Rollo – do you not see the men who are utterly weirded out by women now?

    “The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his blue pill idealisms.”

    Unsure of what you mean here.

  10. What we believe and think often comes true because we subconsciously accuse or act negatively according to our thoughts. If we believe the best of our spouse, they are more likely to live up to our expextations. But it is good to be red pill aware at the same time. I like your muscle/fat analogy.

  11. “No amount of going back to church will actually make an atheist into a believer, no matter how comforting it would be.”

    Disagree – I’ve seen in happen on numerous occasions.

  12. ” No amount of going back to church will actually make an atheist into a believer, no matter how comforting it would be.”

    Where is the one place you can find the being that loves you for no reason other than you exist?

    There is nothing wrong in investing in God…unlike humanity He will never turn away. However He will work on a different time schedule…so patience is the key.

  13. Athol,
    You never cease to amaze, delight and surprise me.
    Wonderful!

  14. Athol, what I’m disagreeing with is your presumption that Alpha=Red Pill and Beta=Blue Pill. There are plenty of natural Alpha men living under a Blue Pill feminized mindset that’s worked for them, though they don’t realize it. Likewise there are countless Betas who are Game/Red Pill aware who are (hopefully) initiating real betterment in themselves as a result of it.

    From Bitter Misogynists:
    http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/25/bitter-misogynists/

    There is no going back.

    NEO: “There’s no going back now is there?
    MORPHEUS: “No. But if you could, would you really want to?”

    One dynamic I encounter from guys who’ve experienced the ‘community’ in varying degrees is a desire to go back to their previously comfortable, ignorant bliss. The reality they become exposed to is too much to bear and they spit the red pill back up. They want to plug themselves back into the Matrix.

    No person both frightens and disgusts me more than one who understands truth, but willfully opts for denial. It’s not the desire to do so that disgusts me, I understand the desire, it’s that there is no going back. Even if you never read another post or blog and regressed back to your old ways, you’ll still make the associations, see the signs of what others have analyzed in your own periphery, in women’s and the world’s behaviors and motivations, and you’ll be reminded (even if subconsciously) of that truth, or at least the uncomfortable push to get at the truth. You will only get what you’ve gotten if you keep doing what you’ve done. There is no going back now. Don’t wish it were easier. Wish you were better.

    There comes a point of conflict (or revulsion if you want) after a guy has been unplugged from the Matrix long enough where he begins to doubt himself and what he’s seeing go on around him. All of the gender dynamics and the complex, but discreet, interplay between the sexes that’s been such a mystery for so long starts to become apparent to him. The Neg Hits he never would’ve dreamed of attempting in his AFC days become so predictably reliable at sparking interest that it becomes depressing. A backhanded compliment shouldn’t work; it goes against everything any girl has ever told him will endear him to a woman, but once he musters up the courage to experiment, he finds that they do.

    What’s depressing isn’t that a well delivered neg, or C&F, or harnessing the attractive Alpha Asshole energy could actually generate sexual interest in women, it’s the principle behind them – the reason why they work – that prompts the internal conflict. Are women, generally, more like this than not? So a guy experiments a little more, and tests other theories, and discovers that with some minor variations, yes, for the most part the principles are valid if not predictable. This then becomes a real tough pill to swallow, especially when you consider ideas like the ruthlessness of feminine hypergamy. It’s very despairing, almost nihilistic, to a man fed on a steady diet of the flowery tropes of feminization for the better part of a lifetime. It’s very hard to measure oneself up and adjust to a new understanding of how women operate. He can’t reconcile what he’d been told and conditioned to believe before (the soul mate myth, pedestalize her, just be yourself, etc.) with this new paradigm. So either he learns to live with this new understanding, benefit from it and grow into a new role for himself, or he rejects it and vilifies it wholesale.

    “Women are really not as bad as these misogynists, these bitter, burned men would all have us believe. They’re shallow and soulless to think women are all out to get them. They over-analyze everything when they should all just be themselves and let fate or some divine force pair them up with their soul mates. I pity them, really I do.”

    I’ve heard all of these regressive rationales from boys as young as 14 to men as old as 75. It’s a comfortable ignorance to believe that things are just unknowable and beyond one’s control or efforts to really understand. And to make matters worse, there’s a long established system of social conventions ready to reinforce and affirm these rationales; ready to reinsert him back into the Matrix and tell him he’s unique and special (“not like other guys”) and will be rewarded with female intimacy for rejecting it.

  15. Rollo – Do you trust your wife? Do you think she loves you?

    You’re eqating Red = Alpha, Blue = Beta to me. I’m more saying Red = Truth, Blue = Illusion.

    There’s a small degree of comforting illusion we need to make our relationships run smoothly.

  16. Athol I’m worried you are starting to have an “us vs. them” mentality towards the rest of the manosphere. You’ve always been a healing influence, but in this post and the last few you are really starting to get defensive. Really, I’m worried about you and this blog. Please take your own advice and don’t respond to the frame of the haters. I don’t always agree with you, but you are at your best when you keep your own frame. Buck up. Don’t be negative about (nor give blogtime to) haters who disagree. Also don’t succumb to the temptation to belittle those who have a beef with your style, it’s not like you.

  17. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    Athol Kay:
    “I’m more saying Red = Truth, Blue = Illusion.
    There’s a small degree of comforting illusion we need to make our relationships run smoothly.”

    Why? If a man can’t understand the truth, internalize it fully and act accordingly, will he really be in a better shape with blinders on?

  18. @Shadow_Nirvana – “Small degree” =/= “Blinders”

  19. @Rico
    Sorry, poor choice of wording that I’d rather not try to defend. Allow me to rephrase: I could go back to my Blue Pill behavior, but it would take extraordinary evidence for me to begin to believe that my Blue Pill behavior would make my relationship work the way that I want.

    @earl,
    For those who believe, there’s nothing wrong with it.

    I hope I don’t offend either of you. I don’t mean to compare religion/atheism with Blue/Red pill (OK, I guess I did, but I don’t mean to attack religion). Chalk it up to a bad analogy, if you will.

    And apologies to Athol, I didn’t want to discuss religion. Mea culpa. My point was that simply wanting to believe in Blue Pill illusions doesn’t make the Red Pill “reality” go away.

    I first read about the red pill on your site (http://marriedmansexlife.com/take-the-red-pill/). Reread it–it’s worth it. It didn’t take long for the MAP to start working for me. I had already dropped weight, earned a good income, house, car, etc., but I lacked confidence. I realized that I was a high value man. When I realized that I was a high value man, she realized that I was a high value man. When I stopped being beta, she stopped nagging. It surprised me, that after years of doing more and more chores to make her happy that I was able to do fewer chores, and she became more pleasant about it.

    However, I encountered a problem: My Blue Pill-self had thought my wife had settled for me (yes, she was still on a bit of a pedastal). But under Red Pill thinking: if all women were hypergamous, why wouldn’t she cheat? For the Red Pill to be true I needed some justification to believe that she’d be faithful. I wouldn’t be able to live constantly worrying that she’d cheat, but I didn’t want to fall back to the Blue Pill mentality (because the Red Pill worked, dammit). So (to myself) I agreed and amplified: She *could* cheat, but the result would be the end of our relationship. A divorced middle-aged man with children still has a much greater market value than a divorced middle-aged woman with children. Is it more likely that I’d be able to find a younger, more attractive second wife, or, that my SO would be able to find a more attractive, more successful second husband? Yes, I still love my wife and want to remain with her, but if we broke up, years down the road, I think I’d still be ahead. It’s harsh, but it’s “I want to believe that my wife would never cheat because she loves me, even though I think she settled.” vs. “My wife would never cheat because she would be worse off and I would end up in a better position.”

    Try to think of it from the other point of view: It’s Alpha behavior to trust your wife, since the REALITY of it is that the relationship would end if she did anything untrustworthy. If you are truly a high value man, then she has more to lose.

    Yes, it’s exhausting to think that I will always have to be a better man, but on the other hand–she makes me want to be a better man.

    Maybe I’m just living under a different kind of illusion, but it’s one that I can live with.

  20. The best thing I read from Mises is that it’s never to the benefit of a rational actor to act on either incomplete or wrong information.

    So what you have to conclude is that men are not rational when approaching women and therefore are better served by lies than the truth, if you are going to claim that the blue pill is needed.

    But I don’t think that’s the case. The bitterness that so many men have doesn’t come from accepting the truth so much as it comes from rejecting lies. And the guys who hold out the longest are going to be least likely to land on the truth when they finally do let go of the illusions.

  21. @NEL

    No offense taken. I’ve seen atheists who are better Christians than church goers. I’d rather see truthful actions than labeling yourself truthful.

  22. Great article Athol. You are the man sir. This is something I have been having a problem with. I want to just rest and trust… after being cheated on by a past few g/fs, including one that went on for months, I have a tough time trusting anyway. After my marriage had some SERIOUS issues last year, I was in the worst of it.. thought she was cheating, both emotionally and on the very of physically. I know now she was never physically involved with anyone.. I was lucky. She could have, god knows she had enough reason to.

    Fast forward, i am giving her nothing but reasons to not wander.. but at the same time, every time I slip up, or piss her off, or whatever, I think she is going down that path again. She has told me over and over to trust her. I try every day, but it is really hard.

    Thanks again for writing this article.. its just more proof that I do need to trust her. She has certainly given me enough reason to trust her.

    I dont think I have anything more to add besides this: I am the poster child of this article. Thanks for writing it.

  23. Very insightful Athol. I have been a jaded person my entire life. Taking the red pill was bittersweet. On one hand, It confirmed what I believe was BS from the mainstream media re how the dynamics of a marriage should be. I never bought into the stages of love. i.e.. Romantic love/lust is first. And down the road, the relationship “matures” (code for sexless marriage), and sex is not as important as it was initially. Ive always called bullshit on that and refused to accept it and be another lemming. I just didn’t have the tools to keep the spark alive. Until I discovered the Primer. I, like every other man, was sabotaging the relationship with blue pill thinking / Nice Guy. Good intentions mean nothing. The only down side I see (although necessary) is the hypervigilance. A small amount of blue pill, as I just learned from you, will keep you from going mad.

  24. Although I am not married I guess digesting Red pill for married men is more like someone wrote before: “She could cheat, so what? I’m gonna do my best and if she cheats I’ll find someone else”

    That way you minimize the restlessness of constantly checking that all parameters are correct. She cheats, she loses!

  25. FlyingDutchman says:

    I can identify with this as a 2 year red-piller will a turned around marragie that is pretty damn good now after a slow decline into near divorce pre red-pill. There is still a part of me that has to beleive my wife loves me for me, for who I am underneath any facades. I accept that her sexual attraction (the “in love” part) is based on my Alpha behavior and social status, but I still have to beleive there is more to it than that. Am I deluding myself by thinking this way? I don’t know, and I don’t care. It works for me. Because if I go 100% red-pill then I truly no longer care for my wife as a person and would only see her as a pure automation. I don’t want to go there.

  26. You get the gist, but if you need more examples of Red Pill absolutism just look up any Susan Walsh post on HUS.

    I disagree with this. Susan Walsh is REMARKABLY sane. She understands the Red Pill – i.e. female sexuality – but she also understands that the MAJORITY of ‘Sphere claims are BULLSHIT; especially yours Rollo. As Walsh as shown, the data does NOT verify most of the ‘sphere claims. And there is NO scientific verification of hypergamy. At least not the way the ‘sphere defines it. Divorce rape, Paretto sex distributions, cock carrousel, etc. All of this ‘spherian bullshit is not backed by the data.

    The manosphere is a reaction against the Left in general and feminism in particular. Fine. I can’t stand the Left either. But the manosphere is still steeped in knee-jerk ideology and NO ONE is more guilty of that than you Rollo. My god, you are a one note sophist. You’re a hammer and everything else in the world is a nail with the word “hypergamy” stamped on it. And you have an echo chamber which believes your bullshit. As does Roissy and Roosh and the regular caste of misanthropes.

    Yes, women crave psychological strength and dominance. But the reality is NOWHERE as simplistic as you present it. At least Athol is wrestling with the realities and nuances of relationships and marriage. He’s a mature man in a ‘spehre full of whiny children of which you are one of the lead brats.

    Obviously I am not a fan. Or a cult follower as the case may be…

  27. I like this post. We are only new to your site, and though we have read almost all your posts, the book is still on the way and yet to be fully implemented. Contrary to many of your followers we did not come here because our marriage is in trouble, our 11 year marriage has been consistently getting better and easier since we emerged from the baby phase. We have lots and lots of sex, our life is easy, we get along really well most of the time and have always trusted each other. But its always nice to make improvemts. I found your site as i was beginning to realise that i wanted to extend his dominence i enjoyed in the bedroom into our daily marriage, and that even though i had been raised by an ‘independant man hater’ and grown up to be a ‘strong/pushy woman’ i actually might prefer to follow and submit to my husband, it just feels better (this has been a huge surprise to me and who I thought I was). but I have found the emphasis on cheating a little cynical, it’s very fear based, and I try to live my life focused on positives. To me submitting to him has meant letting go and trusting his leadership, which feels like a huge weight off me, as I tend to spin in circles and make all my decisions far more complicated than they need to be. I love the clarity your philosophy gives to what we thought was my erratic behaviour but is actually just biology, and I love how you seem to be constantly making an effort to attract one another to keep the relationship fresh, not from fear of losing one another, but because its makes for a fun relationship. I’m really excited about what’s next for us.

    keep doing what you’re doing, and I’ll happily keep buying it.

  28. Susan Walsh is REMARKABLY sane.

    You can’t be serious about this. She doesn’t understand the consequences of female sexuality at all – she’s still promoting “serial monogamy outside of marriage” for heaven’s sake.

    Hell, just look at the title of her blog: “Hooking Up Smart”. While catchy, this has an easy answer: “Don’t do it.” There, done.

    As a couple more examples of her “sanity”:
    - There was a fairly recent post where an argument started up in the comments about Adria Richards and PyCon. She could not for the life of her figure out the issues the men were having with that (even enough to disagree with those issues), and there were three of us trying to explain it to her.
    - She claims to be against cads and players and such. Yet, until she recently deleted the whole thing, she had an absolute “Capital C Cad” on her blogroll and always replied very enthusiastically to his comments.
    - The whole nonsense with Dalrock (and Deti too, actually). I haven’t seen where Dalrock has ever been anything but respectful towards her, and she attacks him with a fury that I simply can’t understand. (And yes, I’ve combed through the old thread that seems to have been the source of this and can’t find anything there at all.)

  29. “The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.”
    — Oscar Wilde

  30. @jack,

    Manginesse to English translation: “I have never seriously read a fraction of your posts, but I’m happy to parrot back all the misconstrued and out of context distortions Aunt Giggles accuses you of on all the blogs she’s too chickenshit to show up on because the boilerplate of her edit & delete comment sections keeps me comfy in my blue pill cocoon.”

    She and you are shining examples of exactly why men need more red pill truths – at the cost of blue pill idealisms.

  31. Carlotta says:

    Thank you for this. Well said.

  32. PastorofMuppers says:

    @Rollo
    Ah, the always clever “mangina” trope. Couldn’t you at least have worked in something about white knighting since your entire response was little more than poorly constructed ad hominem that fails to address a single one of his criticisms?
    By the way, was Keyzer Soze unavailable?

  33. @Rollo – Magina – Aunt Giggles. Shaming language isn’t an argument.

    Rollo – you’re the moderator of a forum where the “Married Man” section only has one sticky, and that’s about how to cheat on your wife. I just don’t think we’re going to agree on everything.

  34. @Rollo
    > the assumption that Red Pill awareness is a consuming force in a Man’s life that demands his constant effort and vigilance to defend himself against.
    > Once this awareness is internalized and becomes a part of a Man’s personality there is no vigilance, just awareness. There is a subconscious understanding of the order of things from a red pill perspective

    Thank you, my dear sir! This encapsulates it all.
    Since we’ve been making references to The Matrix, here’s the one that gives the key

    http://youtu.be/dzm8kTIj_0M

    @Athol
    > I’m more saying Red = Truth, Blue = Illusion.
    > There’s a small degree of comforting illusion we need to make our relationships run smoothly.

    I would have to disagree with the statement that we need even a small degree of illusion. After more than a decade of studying women, men, leading and teaching seduction, many relationships of various types, I would say I’ve made my peace with reality.

    That includes both male and female attraction responses, differences in interests and modes of perception, female hypergamy, the male arousal cycle- and female misunderstanding of it; the four-year human mating cycle; and all that we do to get along and love each other in this soup of influences, tendencies, joys and activities that make up the human condition . . .

    Could I turn your phrase around and suggest that “becoming comfortable with reality” is what we need to do?

  35. @FlyingDutchman
    > if I go 100% red-pill then I truly no longer care for my wife as a person and would only see her as a pure automation

    Would you be able to explain why you think this?

    For the record, I would disagree with any idea that “red pill” understanding of “reality” or “truth” has to preclude caring for anyone as a person: wife, husband, lover, co-worker, or anyone else . . .

    Perhaps this is because I consider each person to be an integrated whole. We’re all a glorious mix of thoughts, emotions, free will rationality, subconscious influences. Hypergamy or the human mating cycle does not have to be destiny. Joy, sharing and , yes, even marriage, can get along fine with the tendency of men to be horndogs and women to do fitness tests from time to time.

    The Red Pill Truths are tendencies that The System would like to keep us ignorant of, for its own purploses, but they’re just inborn tendencies resulting from thousands of years of biological development. They’re not overwhelming forces that can drive a person deterministically like computer code steers a robot.

  36. Relationships are like watching a movie. Both require a little willing suspension of disbelief.

  37. I grew up with a person who knew he wanted to be an accountant when he was six. He never deviated and became an accountant when he grew up. Accounting is indeed a good field of study and he didn’t suffer like others trying to find himself or jump from the couch pretending to be Superman, or a spy, or anything cool. He also didn’t have a lot of poetry in his soul. He saw reality for what it was.

  38. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    I’ve read this many times, still I fail to understand the point of the post. I doubt there is a sane person on earth that says the moment you aren’t the male with the highest status she can get, she’ll instantly dump you.Instead as a red pill enthusiast I see it as this:
    If “Your objective status”+”Her ego(emotional) investment in the relationship”>”The status of the highest ranking male(other than you) willing to take her” You are good. Else she’ll find a way out of the relationship.

    Also, if this post is written regarding the red pill view of the world (as seen in http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/the-fundamental-premise/ )… I don’t know that seems a lot like trying to close your eyes because the truth is so ugly.

    I don’t know. Is a healthy, fulfilling relationship impossible for a disillusioned male? If it is, is it really better to believe in little pretty white lies so you can go on functioning as the mainstream people want you to?

    Also Rollo’s words : “The real danger inherent in Game and Red Pill awareness is a man using it to fulfill his blue pill idealisms.”
    Wow. Something of an internal battle for me. So true.

  39. Shadow Nirvana,
    I think this is a false dichotomy. You can be cynical without turning into a cynic.
    If we want a true dose of reality there’s very little that we do that matters in the end of things anyway. No matter how rich, how much tail we get, or how successful on paper we’re all destined to be pushing up daisies. So are our kids. And their kids, and so on.
    Love, hope, joy aren’t things that can be quantified and analyzed, but they’re invaluable for quality of life….or else what is the point really? Understanding “truth” is a means to happiness, but if it jades you to the point where everything is a battle and test, you’ve lost the war anyway.

  40. Rollo – Do you trust your wife? Do you think she loves you?

    You’re eqating Red = Alpha, Blue = Beta to me. I’m more saying Red = Truth, Blue = Illusion.

    There’s a small degree of comforting illusion we need to make our relationships run smoothly.

    I think the problem here is the presumption that love is necessarily a Blue Pill illusion. I would argue that love and trust can very much be Red Pill realities once the Red Pill becomes a Man’s internalized state. In fact I think casting real love and trust as being elements of blue pill fantasy only reinforces the negative perspective of the Red Pill as being grossly nihilistic truth.

    So yes, I do trust my wife, and I know she loves me, but those estimations come as the result of my being Red Pill aware of the mechanics that contribute to them existing in my reality, and the understanding of the part I play in their continued, real, existence. Our love and trust come as a result of my better understanding harsh Red Pill realities, with all of their inherent consequences, and not due to some pollyanna Blue Pill escapism to vacation to when the Red Pill seems too cruel.

  41. Rollo – I’m not sure you understand neurobiological construction of things like “love” and “trust” like I do.

    MMSL is based on Alpha = dopamine and Beta = oxytocin, and that’s what has really driven it’s effectiveness rather than trying to keep everything in the psychology/sociology arena of things. But it does lead to a troublesome place where many people struggle with the idea that trust and love can even exist after taking the Red Pill.

  42. MrBurgundy says:

    A red-pill guy can be just as much “in love” (whatever your definition of that might be) as a blue-pill guy.

    The difference is that the red-pil guy will be more attuned to notice red flags if they occur and be more knowledgeable about what to do about them.

    Think of a marriage or LTR like a car: an auto mechanic isn’t necessarily a better driver than the rest of us, but knows to pay attention and how to do something if there’s an odd noise coming from the engine.

  43. My general maxim on dealing with women:

    “You don’t have to be a dick, just don’t be a pussy. Pussies get fucked.”

  44. @ jabari:

    “- The whole nonsense with Dalrock (and Deti too, actually). I haven’t seen where Dalrock has ever been anything but respectful towards her, and she attacks him with a fury that I simply can’t understand. (And yes, I’ve combed through the old thread that seems to have been the source of this and can’t find anything there at all.)”

    Oy. More debates about Susan Walsh’s place.

    HUS serves a necessary function, to wit: an introduction to the Red Pill and sexual marketplace realities for young college age and college educated women. She is doing very, very difficult work and she’ll succeed only on the margins. To that extent I support what she does.

    The problem is that she has had to tamp down a lot of vociferous male opinion on her site, mainly because her female commentariat and readers just cannot handle blunt truth presented as only men can present it. She has absolutely rejected the apex fallacy and insists that beta schlubs are having sexual success. She insists that women are really attracted to beta men (that being the Vox Day sociosexual beta) and they’re not attracted to alphas. She insists that “dominance” means “prestige” and that THAT is what women are attracted to despite much evidence to the contrary including women gravitating toward criminals, thugs, badboys who cheat on them, and arrogant pricks who treat them like shit.

    She insists that promiscuous men and sluts (the 20% give or take of men and women who are the most sexually active) are servicing pretty much only one another; with very, very little player penetration (heh) into the nonslutty majority of women, when literally dozens of male commenters come forward with veritable mountains of anecdote to the contrary. Susan gives only passing shrift to any evidence or studies which haven’t been peer reviewed and published, and whose authors have less than a Ph.D. next to their names. Anecdotal evidence and observation are almost meaningless, no matter how many people come forward with pretty much the same observations of male-female relational behavior cutting across every conceivable demographic. She just won’t hear of it unless it’s been proven or discussed in a scientific study (many of which are based on anonymous “surveys” of women asking them what they would do in a given situation; which is much like asking a woman what she wants in a man and getting back the stock answer “I just want a nice guy who will treat me right.”)

    She’s entitled to her viewpoints. She’s entitled to cling to her studies and her rejection of male anecdata, regardless of how uniform the observations are. She’s not immune to criticism for it. My main complaint is that I think she’s essentially promoting Game 2.0. This essentially coopts game into the service of women. In this function Game exists not for male self-improvement, but solely to create date-able men, boyfriends, and husbands for women who want them. Sorry, but I don’t think men exist solely to supply fun for a woman on Saturday nights; or to be their boyfriends; or to marry them when they finally decide to get their shit together and pick one for life.

    The Dalrock dustup was merely the result of Susan losing an argument about the extent of frivolous divorce.

    Not sure what you’re referring to with regard to me. Susan banned me and/or put me into permanent moderation in january after she says I criticized her at Dalrock’s. I was in fact defending her to another commenter, but pointed out my opinion that her site was of more value to women and of little value to men in the realm of intergender relations. About a month or so ago, she did the same with Mike C, a very astute and brilliant former regular commenter at HUS.

    I am not a blogger. Susan Walsh is. She is running her site how she wishes. She’s gearing it to women. That’s fine. But at best, her readers and female commenters are getting the purple pill and watered down red pill. Half the truth is OK, but all the truth is optimal.

  45. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    After thinking a-frigging-lot about this, I have to say I agree with you, Athol, even though at first I hadn’t really understood the deal.

    We don’t really see the truth when we look at the world, we see our perception of the truth. Even the red pill community isn’t really living based on the truth, if they were they would understand it will serve you absolutely no purpose to have fucked a hundred chicks you wouldn’t even care about or having a soft harem of the hottest babes you can get or striving for a perfect red pill marriage or even MGTOW. Because really, you are a nothing when compared to the galaxy and the galaxy isn’t even a speck of dust compared to the universe. Your time on this earth is just an insanely small sliver compared to the history of humanity and humans haven’t even been on earth for that long. Your existence means basically nothing and you passing (or not passing) on your genes, polygamy, hypergamy, cheating, cuckolding are vastly trivial issues. That’s the real “red pill”.

    Yet you still live. Even faced with this absurdity, humans don’t just go “Fuck it” and blow their brains out. You live, you care about stupid shit, try to make the best out of your situation, do stuff etc. This is because of the phenomenon called “psychological immune system” as coined by Daniel Gilbert in Stumbling on Happiness. No stuff(positive or negative) really affects you as much as you think about how much it will beforehand and in time you return to your baseline happiness levels. This psychological immune system mixes a bit of blue pill in with the red pill, so to speak.

    Also again another concept from the same book: Your whole “truth” is colored by the lens you see with. So any speculations (that aren’t based on concrete science) is just that, speculations and even if they’re based on the truth, they have the observer’s intent, experiences and current feelings filling every little crack there is.So much for Rollo Tomassi’s assertion of “This is how things are, not how they should be”. Truth is the saying should go “This is how Rollo Tomassi sees the truth and beware because he’s very biased” lol.

    Thank you Athol, for this masterpiece. You have truly shown that you have an intelligence and understanding of things that surpasses any other red pill blogger there is.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] Athol Kay somewhat shares my disagreement with this assessment but takes it in another direction I find somewhat erroneous: The standard line is that the Red Pill is the truth and the Blue Pill is the illusion. But it’s more like the Red Pill is muscle and the Blue Pill is fat. [...]

  2. [...] using Cypher’s character here today thanks to an enlightening post Athol Kay dropped last week. I disagree with his assertion here that red pill men need their occasional blue pill escapisms, [...]

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