You Threw Off My Groove

When I started MMSL, I figured that I was going to be besieged by angry feminists demanding my head. Instead I got a smidgen of disgruntled SAMH’s ranting on mommy blogs once in a while. Really, that’s been about it. Even when a lone feminist gets into it in the comments, I’ve typically sat back and watched the female readership of MMSL tear into her saying “we like it, go away”.

Instead 95+% of the nasty stuff in the comments et al have been from men. Usually it’s just grindingly negative whining about how something sucks and/or how I suck in particular. A lot about how I’m not hating women to their desired specifications. Everything is feminism’s fault yada yada yada.

If you go back to when I started posting on Talk About Marriage to now, it’s been four years of writing about ways to fix marriages, restart sex lives and generally keeping men out of divorce court. Families together yada yada yada. That’s four years of writing, answering email, putting my name and private life out there and gambling a career on all this. I’m at somewhere around 900-1000 emails, blog comments and forum messages that MMSL has made a serious difference to men in particular.

….and I’m the jerk that doesn’t care about men?

Look I know I’m just meant to not care about whiny assholes complaining on the blog… but the fact is if I wasn’t somewhat emotionally sensitive and driven, MMSL would have folded up shop long ago. It doesn’t hurt my feelings, there’s no box of tissues in use, but it really does just drain the life out of me and kills all motivation to sit down for another day and help another random male stranger in desperate circumstances via email or the forum. It throws off my groove.

So anyway… I’ve come toward the limits of my tolerance and endurance with this shit. Either stick around and help me help married guys in trouble, or fuck off making so much noise and scaring away the Nice Guys who need the help.

Thus a new commenting policy is born….

If you want to leave some shitty “it all sucks and there’s no solution” or snarky “fuck you” directly at me… that just might throw off my groove…

Marriage is always going to have to be a win-win exchange for both sides of the couple. If you want some sort of lubeless-surprise-anal approach to women, it’s just not going to be here.

TL:DR  My groove gets thrown off and it’s hard to write creatively and give my best effort at helping people.


  1. You totally made up the whiners so you could use that clip.

    I miss the forums most of the time and when I do lurk the worst I see is some victim puking. They admit it, purge it, and I assume go back to the trenches of their marriage for another round in the grinder.

    Since I found your advice I have saved my marriage (we were minutes away from signing, literally). I regained my fitness levels, moved my salary past 100k/yr, survived the death of a child with my marriage intact, strong enough to support my wife. Had another child, supported my wife through a hysterectomy and the emotional wreckage that brought.

    This all happened in the last 2 years. We are am inseparable couple now, undefeatable. I don’t know how you do it. Honestly I really don’t. I have tried to steer some guys this way but most of the guys I know I consider road kill beyond help. The ‘green’ in the soylent.

    I really want you to know that I give thanks for your work almost every single day. Normaly I wouldn’t man love like this in public and send a PM but wtf.

    Thanks. Truly.

    Also, all the Star Trek business has me watching all the seasons in order on Netflix. That’s pretty cool too.

  2. Fuck the haters Athol!

    I’m watching Afleck on SNL right now. The monologue and first sketch both had the “marriage is work” mantra. I think many men sign up for the Disney fairytale marriage as much as the women and think things will be so easy and natural. That thought process needs to be exterminated in both sexes as a more pragmatic view on marriage is needed. Marriage is work, and MMSL lays out the map (pun intended) for how the man should do his work to have the marriage he wants. Sometimes shit happens and things don’t go as planned (which is why I’m writing this instead of fucking my wife right now), but the aggregate of your hard-worked-for marriage should be a positive one and not a negative one. Don’t let the bumps in the road distact you from the overall improvements. Athol and Jen help those in need. So if you dickwads out there can’t appreciate that, go back to your other men’s victims forums and leave this group alone. Signed: a hard core advocate of MMSL

    PS: forgive any spelling mistakes, written on a phone

  3. ..and fuckin’ wow Rob! My heart goes out to you.

    “Steel forged, your marriage sounds” Yoda would say.

  4. Good for you Athol. You don’t have the time or energy to waste on people who are determined to be miserable, and want someone to blame for it. Nearly everybody who “takes the Red Pill” goes through that angry phase, and sure, they need to vent, but this is not the place for it. You shouldn’t have to explain yourself or apologize; you (and most of your readers) are in the business of moving forward. If and when they are ready, they can move forward too.

  5. Thanks all.

  6. Athol, I have thanked you in PMs and now want to thank you on your blog. Your MAP and writings have helped me immensely. Please do not let the jerks distract you.

    Rob,you are a man of great strength and your post is an inspiration.

  7. Love your blog, Athol. Keep empowering the people who are willing to take responsibility for their own personal happiness and that of their families.
    Whiners gonna whine, especially on the internet. Feminists haven’t cornered the market on shifting blame to others.

    Rob, your story is inspirational. Steel forged indeed! Valyrian steel.

  8. threemoreyears says:

    Athol –
    For what it’s worth, this sentiment is common to all volunteer activities. Whether you’re coaching youth baseball or organizing a bake sale, there are always a handful of whiners who don’t have the answers and are unwilling to step up and take over themselves, but feel the abiding need to tell you just how wrong your way is.

    This is not exactly a volunteer activity for you, but taking on that next not-directly-paying client is volunteering of a sort, and certainly, uncovering and publishing the grain of universal truth you find in those situations for the betterment of your readership has more of a humanitarian element than an economic one.

    Mother Theresa had her detractors – you can’t do anything publicly without them. Just keep looking at the scoreboard (900 men helped/marriages saved vs. handful of haters) and don’t let the soul-sucking ankle biters get you down.

  9. Athol, I’ve appreciated your blog precisely because it focuses on the practical aspects of the marriage without getting caught up in the blame game. I’ve seen you tackle some hard issues while remaining level headed and giving workable advice that leads to the desired outcome of saving the marriage or making it better. I’m not currently married but as I plan on marrying, I’ve found your blog to be a great resource and will continue to keep checking in. I think there are probably alot of guys like me who don’t comment much but still hear what you have to offer and learn from it. So keep up the good work.

  10. Aww… don’t let them throw off your groove, Athol. While you may veer into Dr. Phil territory on your bad days, you really do have the good medicine for men and your bad days are very few. Anyone who needs to whine on some other dude’s blog does it to avoid/resist change in their own lives.

    They deeply resist change, yet at the same time they need to blow off steam/pressure that comes with an obvious need to change.

  11. I appreciate you and MMSL for many reasons, one of which is that you do not blame women for every problem that occurs in marriage and life. Some blogs do, and they are utterly depressing (and not helpful in terms of helping people move forward.) I hope you can just delete comments as soon as you see that they are whiny/snarky/rude and just continue to give positive input to people who want to have good marriages. Thanks for all you do.

  12. technovelist says:

    It’s sad but true that the saying “no good deed goes unpunished” seems to be a law of (human) nature.
    But don’t let anyone or anything stop you from your mission. You’re the Captain!

  13. fredless says:

    Simply put, your work saved my marriage. My wife is completely unaware that you exist but on some level, she thanks you as well.

  14. Athol: I honestly can’t see why a feminist would have much of a problem with your work. (I should add that I’m generally way way out on the political left compared to the MMSL Forum norm.) Maybe feminists wouldn’t like it that you tell men to be the captain. On the other hand, you just advise it pragmatically, not righteously, and you say “if this doesn’t work for you, well OK then.” That’s not a hell of a lot to take issue with, and aside from that, you just want everyone to be getting lots of good sex. Contrary to evident MMSL Forum belief, feminists fully support that goal.

    Most references to “feminism” I see on the Forum seem to come from people who aren’t well acquainted with actual feminism or any actual feminists (let alone the real history of the feminist struggle and how much of our sexual freedom we all owe to it), but have internalized the cartoon version peddled by Limbaugh et al. I don’t suppose the lack of feminist adversity to MMSL will affect their opinion; they’re in their comfort zone when fighting imaginary enemies. The scenario is mostly harmless but it does make for some rude invective. IMO your new comment policy is welcome.

  15. Original Poster says:

    @Acksiom: What exactly is your point?

  16. Love the blog, and the discussions that follow!
    I follow a couple woman-hating blogs (but hate them… I just check in every now and then to keep up-to-date on what the complaints are, in case there is anything that I can actually learn from them)
    I follow a couple man-hating blogs but hate them… I just check in every now and then to keep up-to-date on what the complaints are)
    This is one I actually follow AND enjoy!
    People who take responsibility for their lives, who are truly interested in self-improvement, and very often I DO learn from the commenters!!
    An actual advice blog that offers sound advice!!
    Thank you, Athol!

  17. Omnivorous says:

    Mr. Kay , you are and have been a smart man saying smart things to help others and yourself.

    You are doing good and you are doing well at it.

    Chin up, sir. Whiners, scoffers, and nay-sayers, be damned.

    Omnivorously yours

  18. what is a SAHM?

    Stay At Home Mother

  19. Well, I found your blog post divorce. I appreciate it very much. It, and the book have been very helpful to me in terms of reconstructing past relationship exploits, picking my way through various stages of getting my shit back together and working on my happy.

    Every time I was sinking in a stinking pit of anger or hating on women, there was Athol flying the flag and saying “C’mon man, women are crazy sometimes but they are still a lot of fun!” Then I finally got to the point where I could laugh at myself and all the antics that go on. Now I’m in a very good spot and onward and upwards.

    For those dudes who are struggling with a lot of bad feelings and are all tied up in knots, I say keep working on letting that anger go. It will get better bit by bit. Eventually reality, your understanding of it, and your ability to maneuver within it with a high degree of confidence and success will intersect if you stay committed to making forward progress.

    To the professional haters I say: F you clowns. What have you done to help anyone or yourselves even? Other than to try to draw them into the same miserable toilet spiral you are in?


    You can save all yer shit about the vast female conspiracy, feminism enslaving you, the matrix, all women suck, women are all out to get you (Doubt it. Doubt they know you even exist), all they want is your balls on a chopping block and your credit card in their hand, etc. No one wants to hear it anymore. Grow up you bunch of pussies.

    Even if all that stuff was true and true for every woman you met, so what? That’s right. So what? What are you going to do about it? Sit at home and be miserable and bitch all the time like a little girl or are you going to go out in the world and get what you want from it? Bend it to your will.

    Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

    You’re going to keep doing what you’ve been doing which is running away from your own fear. Fear that you can’t compete with other men. Fear that you’ll fail. Fear that you’ll pick the wrong chick and get hurt. Fear that some other guy is going to take your girl from you. Fear that she’s thinking about him when she’s in the sack with you. (lolz!) Fear that no quality woman will want you because you are found wanting, and yes, you are wanting right now even if you can’t see it. It’s apparent with every “all women suck and any guy who enjoys women is a sucker” tirade that you unleash.

    All of your hangups, past hurts and disappointments are blowing in the wind for all to see. That in and of itself is not a problem, but that you refuse to do anything about it after a period of time other than to bitch and point the finger at everyone and everything in the world as the cause for your misery, except yourself, is weak shit.

    Congratulations you cunts. You have met the enemy and it is you.


    Respect. You are a man.

  20. Stilllearning says:


    I have been reading your blog for quite some time and admit that I am somewhat a novice at this whole thing but from my POV most of what you say and write is all stuff that in a nutshell is just common sense and something that most guys deep down already know. But similar to my case have been conditioned to not accept.
    My question to you is this: Generally it does not appear that you are the type of person who would be affected by what others thought as long as you are behaving within your rational boundaries, why, therefore would you be affected by a minority point of view such as you mentioned? You Stated at the beginning of your post that you were expecting a different group to react. It appears it is more of a shock to you that it is a small group of men that are reacting. As the saying goes.” You can never please everybody all the time” so why try.?
    Bottom line … You are a genius to be able to, not only realize everything that you write about and implement it in your own life , let alone do what you do and share it with others so they too can improve their marriages !

    My hat is off to you sir and may you “live long and prosper”! Fuck the girly men who have nothing better to do but wine and cry, they are not worth your time or effort.

  21. I’ve read through most of your blog over the last couple of months and I am impressed by how insightful your information has been. I also think that a large percentage of my peer group would probably find it offensive in some ways. I think most of that is due to their own insecurities. Some truths are harder to hear than others, I guess.

    Keep up the good work!

  22. Joe_Commenter says:

    @ZLX1: You are an inspiration my man. And you are right, anger is fine. It’s just frustration being shown. What is not fine is doing nothing about it. The anger never goes away unless you make it go away. Happy is a much better state of mind than anger.

  23. It’s not about Team Man or Team Woman, it’s about Team Civilization.

    Every marriage saved = a win for Team Civilization. Especially if there are children involved. The manosphere has been great at calling out the destructive effects of divorce on kids. It’s surprising that anyone would complain about preventing this.

    This blog has done wonders for my marriage. We weren’t anywhere near considering divorce, we were just in a rut. Thanks to this blog, our relationship is now a lot more fun. Thank you, Athol!

  24. Over It says:

    Athol, I’m a female reader who’s benefited immensely from MMSL. I’m especially grateful for the way you boil down male-female relationships to a cost/benefit type analysis without all the “unconditional love” crap that’s out there. Since I started reading, I’ve reexamined several negative, draining relationships (both with men and women) in my life and ended them. It feels like a weight off my shoulders, and all the energy I used to waste is now being put towards more productive purposes. Thank you.

  25. Over It says:

    Bravo, sir! You’re right, fear makes a lot of people lash out and stay exactly where they are instead of changing their situations. What’s that saying about “a man makes his own destiny?” Yeah.

  26. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    Dude, don’t ever feel discouraged from doing what you are doing. Seriously, MMSL is probably the best thing that happened in the men’s LTR advice genre. Seriously, you taught me about women an relationships more in 6 months than in my 23 years before i found this blog(Although let’s face it, it wasn’t like i went to kindergarten to learn about chicks.)

    I don’t know about the specific situation that made you post this, But make no mistake, some angry feminists and their collaborators are hating on you, too. I sometimes read them on TAM. Also don’t you remember tham time when you posted about the qualities a red-pill woman should possess and David Futrelle of called you a douche-blogger etc etc.

  27. I was in a situation similar to Rob’s. Your book was the principal factor in saving my marriage. But saving isn’t the right word, because it sucked from the start. More accurately, you started my marriage. For the first time in 10 years, my wife respects me and responds to me. We were careening toward divorce and now I’m wearing her out on a regular basis. It’s weird, though, who will take the truth to heart. I’ve bought your book for a friend and shared your ideas with another. Your concepts hit me like a thunderbolt, making me check out of life for a few days and read with my pulse racing from embarrassment from doing everything wrong for so many years. It’s staggering for me to think these other two guys heard this stuff and said “that’s interesting” and went back to their loveless lives thinking that if they kept on doing the same things there would be a different result.

  28. Joe_Commenter says:

    Futrelle is the epitome of liberal douche-bag.

  29. pdwalker says:

    My 2 cents,

    Go here and read some of the stories at random. That’s where my life was headed.

    Not anymore though. Nowhere near it. Because of Athol.

  30. playtrip says:

    I will never forget how I emailed you a problem, a complete stranger, and you answered me in great detail the next day. (And then you posted it on your blog). You helped me.
    Thanks again, brother.

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