Common Warning Signs Women Give of a Relationship Decline

Actually that’s a trick post title, there aren’t any common warning signs, there’s only one.

The sex starts to go away.

That’s it. That’s all you have to go on. You can fairly safely ignore all the words coming out of her mouth about the state of the relationship and simply focus on whether or not the sex is crappy/gone, or hot/frequent.

Marriage is always a sexual relationship. It can be a good sexual relationship, or a bad sexual relationship, but it’s always a sexual relationship. So if the sex is bad, your relationship is bad.

Unless you can point to clear reasons as to why sex isn’t happening, like she’s totally exhausted with breastfeeding a newborn, or her exam finals are stressing her out like crazy, or her parents are staying over and the walls are paper-thin, then you have a relationship problem happening. Note in all those things I suggested, they can all resolve and sex can bounce back. The newborn can get bigger. The exams are over. Her parents go back home. The sex comes back.

But if there is no bouncing back and your sex life is just crappy…  you’re in a bad relationship.

Any time someone says *everything* is going great about their relationship, except the sex, it’s a crock of shit. The relationship is a sexual relationship and the sex is bad so it’s a bad sexual relationship. Plus if you’re in a bad sexual relationship, so is your wife, so the clock may be ticking on a lot worse than simply you having to jerk off in the shower.

If this is all news to you and you want a good sexual relationship, you gotta buy the MMSL Primer and get the whole story.


  1. alphaguy says:

    So true! I can always tell when things are getting off track because the sex slows down and I need to up my alpha or make more money or lose a couple of pounds, then it comes back. You can never take the eye off the ball! It’s so easy to look back and say… geez we haven’t had sex in a month, then it’s 2 or 3 months next thing you know she’s banging the neighbors husband.

  2. @alphaguy, while reading this post, the first thing that popped into my mind was “So true”, then I read your comment. So true. I knew the lack of sex was a major problem, but my approach (talking about it, discussing it, doing even more cooking/cleaning/parenting) just led to even less sex. Either I got the “all you care about is sex” or the “yes honey I agree, we need to have more sex” lip-service answer. Next thing I knew, she was indeed banging an acquaintance’s husband. Please, every one who reads this post, know that it is the truth. Sorry, there are no exceptions. Get the primer and do the work, and either you will eventually rekindle that spark and manifest and experience the connection you want, or you know that things can’t be salvaged and have the courage to take appropriate action.

  3. Roissy had a post today about some presumably betatized guy and how his wife was dodging his kiss _at their wedding ceremony_.

    He ended with “getting a woman to marry you is not hard. What’s hard is getting a woman to love you.” And it immediately struck me how that was/is/has been the core of the challenge in the LTR-game discussion. That’s what so many guys, the majority, are looking for anyway. The male sex drive is strong, for sure, but it’s complemented by the want and need to be loved. It’s amazing how many of my other problems fade into easily-surmountable background noise when I am confident my lady loves me, that I’ve struck the right balance to earn it. Getting sex from a woman is tactical – short-term; not easy but can be done fairly quickly with the right moves. Getting love from a woman is like running a marathon or becoming an Eagle scout – a longitudinal challenge whose completion itself gives you more confidence that you can beat other challenges. Getting a quality woman to love you is, “yeah …I’m that good.”

  4. Tilikum says:

    i read this yesterday, and it really succinctly sums the entire red pill experience into a short summary.

    a woman’s sole purpose is to find and vet the strongest man she can, latch on, and then drive away the competition. that’s where she is happiest, when she has achieved and is maintaining that imperative.

    when you’re weak, she is loosing and feels bad about herself and will run from those negative emotions.

    when she cant maintain a hold, she is loosing and feels bad about herself and will run from those negative emotions.

    when you remove the excitement and desire to drive away competition, she is loosing and feels bad about herself and will run from those negative emotions.


  5. Tilikum, where did you read that?

    I can really relate to those statements.

  6. Peregrine John says:

    It still seems strange to me that the whole thing – this discussion, and the verifiable truth of it – is predicated on a woman’s almost complete lack of moral agency. Just a black box with fairly reliable reactions, almost no decision-making ability at any significant level. I’m not complaining, as machinery is easy to deal with, but damn, it’s depressing now and then.

  7. Cheeky Simmy says:

    “when you remove the excitement and desire to drive away competition, she is loosing and feels bad about herself and will run from those negative emotions”

    Absolute genius. It’s social proof he is worth keeping. I wish I could somehow get my husband to this site, you guys are great.

  8. “”The sex starts to go away.

    That’s it. That’s all you have to go on. You can fairly safely ignore all the words coming out of her mouth about the state of the relationship and simply focus on whether or not the sex is crappy/gone, or hot/frequent.

    I agree with 95% of what you write (in general). That’s pretty good because I’m a woman and it would be scary if I agreed 100% . You are absolutely right about the relationship dying without sex. Sex in marriage is like a glue that holds it all together.

    Problem is, it’s not always the woman pulling back. My husband of 20 years did not feel like having sex. His testoterone is fine. He is straight. He fathered our kids. He’s a man’s man, he supports and protects his family. He just plain and simple has a low sex drive, and too much beta (peace at all costs). I grew angry, depressed and fat over my sexless marriage. I often thought about leaving, so that I could be happy. As I look back, that would have just created a world of new problems… (holidays with kids; grandkids, etc. It was heart-wrenching to think about all those complications).

    There are all sorts of variables involved beyond the sex: a commitment made to see the marriage through better and worse, sicker and poorer (a vow, a promise); and then there are kids and parenting, a hands-down relationship killer if I’ve ever known one. Oh, and as Badger says, “getting a quality woman to love you…” When we married our spouses, didn’t we all feel like we loved them and that they loved us? It’s when we stopped WORKING at maintaining that, the problems start.

    We were headed for splits-ville because I could no longer live in a sexless marriage (I have the high sex drive). I had lost the emotional eating weight, got into better shape, and couldn’t deny my need for sex in our marriage. I no longer could justify that I was unattractive due to the weight. There was an ultimatum thrown down (by me). Either sex comes back into the marriage, and he step up as head of household and dominant male, or I was moving on. It wasn’t another guy I was ready to hop; there wasn’t a neighbor that kept my fantasy life going while I took care of my needs in the shower. I had married my husband for life, and wanted sex with him. What was the magic bullet that gave me the cojones to finally take my stance? The kids were soon to be flying the nest and my duty/obligation to provide them with an intact home was no longer going to be so crucial. That and the fact that I can provide for myself if I needed to.

    And you know what? He stepped up to the plate. He’s making an effort. So, while a sexless marriage made for a lot of misery, we remained committed to remaining in a parenting partnership for the good of our kids and because of the vows we had made, and did not jumps ship based on “feelings” or the quality/quantity of sex that was happening. And now we’ve recommitted and are making up for lost time. Very, very excited about an empty nest and all the opportunities to make up for lost time and to take things beyond vanilla. I really wish I knew exactly why the sex wasn’t there for him initially (it definitely worsened when my feelings of rejection turned me into a bitter bitch), but I’m not going to cry over spilt milk.

    Sex in marrage is highly, highly advisable and even necessary. Without it, marriage is empty and wrong. Sex is the most profound expression of love and connection between two people. If you make the commitment, be prepared to do what it takes to get the mojo back. It’s not always a simple formula, one-size-fits-all technique. Athol, I think you have some awesome techniques that surely help up the game; but as Badger said: “Getting sex from a woman is tactical – short-term.” Love is the thing that carries you through the lean times, and love is not a feeling; it’s a decision you make.

  9. Cheeky Sim says:

    I hear you loud and clear DD, you sound amazing. I’ve done everything you’ve done…I think it’s time I moved on though because mine isn’t committed to making up for lost lovemaking or even start it. I dont want to move on because I know other men are just after my body (it’s looking better now in my 30’s than in my early 20’s) and I know the husband loves me (but obviously not enough to do anything about the sexless marriage).

    You are really lucky he came through.

  10. Cheeky–come over and look at my blog. “Lucky” isn’t a part of all this. It’s been work. It’s involved changing myself because I’m the only one I can change. And it took me having to think about what he needed from me to feel loved. He is soooo beta (woman qualities) that if he doesn’t feel loved then sex doesn’t work for him (whereas I often demonstrate the alpha-male qualities–I want to screw like a rabbit because I’m horny, and talk about the problems later). I realized that if I wanted a dominant man whom I could respect, then I had to work on my submissive. I know that “S” word strikes terror in the hearts of most modern women, but it’s been the hottest thing I’ve ever done in my life.

  11. Joe_Commenter says:

    Cheeky Sim, I agree w/ DD. Women make it too goddammed hard for men to get them in bed. My wife used to start the shit tests the second I brought sex up. A real boner killer. I had to make her understand that she was killing the sex vibe by being difficult.

    Just drop the bitchy/difficult/shit testing.

  12. Cheeky Simmy says:

    @DD I’m definitely coming over to your blog. Thanks for the invite.
    @Joe_Commenter, I’m not aware of any bitchy/difficult/shit testing I am doing so I’m unsure how I can drop something I’m not doing. If my husband brought up sex, I would be so excited he was turned on by me. (Plus my husband ignored me as a teenager when I shit tested him and I learned not to do it again). I prayer for sex every night, there is no way in the world I would do anything to jeopardize it.
    I’m prepared to do whatever is necessary to make my husband want me again. We have so much fun together and I really don’t mind if he is only Beta. I just want him to want me. I’m so jealous of all these lucky girls who have their husbands want them and chase them and I’ve always wanted it. I’m even happy if he initiated every tenth time. I dream one day of being sexually desired by the guy who loves me. There are plenty of narcissists trying to get in my pants but I’m a smart cookie and I refuse to give up my cookie for anyone. It’s precious to me.
    I was really overweight after my second child so I lost the weight and now have the best looking bottom and legs ever just to impress the husband because he loves bums and legs. My hair is long and I’m always well dressed in feminine clothing and I ensure I look like I’m always ovulating (thanks Athol). I’m a traditional wife so I’m submissive in terms of where we spend our money (I earn it all and give it to him and ask him if I can have some to do the grocery shopping – he has had a midlife crisis and stopped working two years ago because he hates what he has been doing for 20 years), I do most of the housework and I cook great meals for him all the time. I will do anything to have my first love my last love and be happy together. I have a high sex drive and I know that makes me dominant in this area and I have tried not initiating sex for months because it makes him seem to withdraw more. I try not to cry when I feel sad by his rejection. I have taken up striptease workshops and pole dancing and belly dancing, bought all the outfits, toys and tried to subtley introduce them but it made things worse. He goes motorbike riding three to four days a week after dinner. He is a great father and a great flatmate but I’d love to cuddle up and watch TV one of these days or go and watch a movie together. I hope you guys can make him say to me one day ” I can’t wait to take you home and fuck you”….WOO HOO I’m getting excited dreaming of it. I’m determined to give this my best shot. I’m coming over DD but I would never leave you Athol and Jennifer….I just love your articles.

  13. Cheeky Simmy says:

    What I meant is I hope with your advice and direction, I can change in a way that makes him want to say that to me. I’ve had 5 years trying to change my ways to make him want me. I can’t imagine anything else I’ve missed out but I’m keep to learn. I know I have to change or change the situation. I was told that I just had to accept it or move on by a counsellor because she can’t see anything else I could possibly do and knows this is affecting my self esteem. He is so kind, I don’t understand why he can’t find his compassion and be a little empathetic towards my desire. It’s like food to me. I need it or I’ll die. I’ve even had girlfriends look me over and see if I need to do something about my skin, hair or physique. Can you tell I’m desperate for help? I’ve never even been kissed by another man so I’m scared of dating if we breakup plus we have children together so it’s important I give it my best. I’ve written 38 letters to him asking for affection or sex over 5 years. He gets the biggest boner and cums really fast when we are together. (the next bit is a little too detailed so skip if you’re a softie…..he says I’m really tight so that’s why he cums so quickly but that’s only because it’s so many months between having sex). I’ve literally gotten down on my knees begging for sex …I know I’m pathetic (thank goodness the internet is anonymous)…that’s probably where he lost all respect for me. Everyone’s saying give up but I keep on trying and only a few days ago I was ready to give up. I have changed so much in the past 5 years and I will give it one last fight. Thanks for caring about a total stranger on the other side of the pond DD & Joe. I have a bit more fight in me xoxo

  14. ozymandias says:

    Peregrine John – I think you are spot on and it bothers the hell out of me as well. Maybe it’s unproductive to be so hung up on these ideas about sentience and self-awareness but I just keep bumping into it. I think its because *I* have to work so hard at exercising that agency myself now. I’m years into a fairly successful MAP and get tons of IOIs. If I didn’t have some decent meta-awareness of what’s motivating me I would be doing stupid shit all the time. It’s just one more thing to add to the captain’s list of responsibilities – being fully conscious.

  15. I have been married for 13 years and my sex life has declined to virtual nothingness over the last ten years, and I let it happen. Recently, on the recommendation of a friend, I began reading the MMSL Primer. I am working on the MAP, but I have a question.

    After our second child, in our third year of marraige, we agreed that a vasectomy was our best choice for birth control. Given the premice that a woman’s body agenda desires sex for reproduction, how does this impact a wife’s desire for her husband, since she knows that sex now has little to no possible potential for pregnancy?

    For some women it makes a difference in desire.

  16. @Trey, based on my extensive knowledge of my girlfriends sex life (yes we really do talk and in detail), I will tell you that for me (but I’m the lustful one chasing her husband) and every single one of my friends sexual appetite is not impacted by a vasectomy or a condom, however, all friends but one were negatively impacted by the female pill. I’m not sure if it’s a hormonal thing or the fact it makes us gain weight and pimples that may us feel ugly an therefore not want to have sex.

    I started reading this website and was screaming yes yes that’s what we want…then others would join in and say yes yes I agree with this Adonis Athol you speak of Simmy but if only he would also be more……

    1. Affectionate and Intimate giving me the chance to initiate him.
    2. Not look at other women (it’s apparently a massive turn off)
    3. Wanted by others (social status – which I think the MAP covers extensively)
    4. Help with the children and around the house

    and so much more.

    I’m big on reading up on biology/hormones and how our chemistry and the time frame for lust works but to put it ALL down to the evolutionary theory makes one see things too black and white and one loses touch with what is right now.

    Dont worry about your form of protection, just follow the rules, look fricken sexy as, build muscle, ignore women who come on to you and tell your wife that you only have eyes for her and my goodness, good luck mofo. If nothing happens then, you’re in boat, it’s not you, it’s her (well in my case despite my efforts over the last 5 years, he wont seek help).

  17. Thanks, @simmmy.

    I don’t think women realize the difficulty in “not looking at other women” increases exponentially when they are not regularly involved with their man sexually. It is kind of like driving past the local BBQ when you have skipped a meal. The sights and smells are irresistable. You are on the road, and will not stop and indulge, but the longing… the hunger… the need for fulfillment is there.

    Hmmm…. Maybe that could be the basis of a new country music song… :)

  18. @Trey

    You are welcome.

    I’m not of your gender so I guess I may not understand how it feels to have your biological hormones running around. I can see some powerful polarity between our sexes so I can’t begin to imagine how hard it is to have that much testosterone in your system and not look (I must have the most of the female gender and I find it very difficult to stop thinking about sex all day everyday but I can stop myself looking at men and other women in everyday life).

    I guess you could always look (which gives you a spike in dopamine) when the Mrs isn’t around but when she is around, you hold her hand and make it obvious when a hot woman walks by that you only have eyes for her…she will notice. If you’re following the MAP, then it’s likely “a” hottish woman will look at you and the Mrs will notice. When the wifey does initiate, play down your interest a little bit, somehow it gives you a higher value…why else have I been trying to master my husband (soon to be ex if he doesn’t sort himself out), it’s our ego that wants to win you. Give her ego a challenge by following that little process.

    I think that would make a great country song LOL

  19. Joe_Commenter says:

    @Simmy: I don’t get the “don’t look at other women”. That’s like not getting any food for 2 weeks and then being told, don’t drool over that plate of BBQ. If my wife has me on starvation sex rations, I’m gonna drool when another woman walks by.

    This just seems like a control tactic to me.

  20. @Joe
    I personally never got the “dont look at other women” suggestion initially too because I’m turned on when hubby does look (which is rare) because it makes me a little jealous and I like that little pang but I’m just plain weird and highly likely nothing like your SO. I’ve even made him fantasize about someone he seems to look at a lot on Facebook during sex trying to get him to want to play intimately with me more. I tell you such intimate info (because the internet is a wonderful anonymous place to play) and to let you know this is not what “I” want, I’m just passing on the word of many women I talk to. You can imagine how much research I’ve done into my girlfriend’s personal lives (and women love to share) just to understand how I should be behaving to get some action at home.

    It’s not a control tactic. It’s something they all share with me and they have no motivation to control me. I don’t report back to their husbands “Hey Mr, you want more sex with your woman, stop staring”… they tell me what turns them off when I question how they can possibly turn down sex with their partner. I dont get it and never have. For me, like you, it’s like food. I need it preferably daily or twice daily but I understand life can be exhausting and would settle for twice a week and to make up for the difference a cuddle on the days I don’t get sex.

    They aren’t trying to control them because these silly women don’t even share the truth, they just say they are tired. Then again, maybe I’m the silly one being so honest with my husband because at the end of the day they are being chased, dont care for their bodies, hair, face, skin, spoil their SO and they are getting all the action.

    If you pick up anything I’m doing wrong in my posts, feel free to be honest. You may just save my dwindling 17 years of little sex marriage. So frustrated, I can see why men become disloyal. OK vent over.

Speak Your Mind