Explaining The “In Her Or On Her” Rule

Forum issue…. spent a long time triaging this case and everything went back to the husband having a porn/Internet addiction. As in we figured out the exact month everything started falling apart being when they first had cable Internet installed. Literally a bright motivated guy one month and starting to flunk out of college the next. Then over a decade of unemployment and underemployment after that. Her carrying about 80% of the income load while he stayed home and jerked off to porn. Long story short, I gave her a full and complete triage experience, she unleashed “Option A or B” on him, he went for Option A.

Which brings us to this post. One of my suggestions that was part of Option A was to adopt the “In her or on her” rule. Meaning where his semen ends up. i.e. no jerking off to porn, if he’s having an orgasm, it’s with her in some way shape or form. Don’t care where he comes, just as long as it’s with her.

Then comes the hamstring questions. What if she’s not available, or doesn’t want to? Or other reason to get around the rule. Squeaky squeak squeakum.

My response…

(1) He’s the addict, so anything he says isn’t reasonable or valid related to the addiction.

(2) He’s allowing himself to have his brain be rewired to experience her as the outlet for his sexuality.

(3) Given long enough (months) doing (2) will make his brain eroticize her to him. Just like he’s conditioned himself to particular porn to be a turn-on, now he’s conditioning himself to be turned-on by her. Yes that’s “artificial”, but it will feel completely real when it’s done.

(4) Like any form of hunger, the longer it goes between feedings, the greater his desire to be fed. So if she is unavailable (work) or unwilling (I expect somewhat rarely), all that does is make him more interested in her and more attracted to her. If he routinely masturbates without her, then he basically messes up the entire program. The orgasming without her is the entire problem.

(5) What he’ll come to learn is that 99% of eroticism lies in the feeling of being turned-on. After he orgasms, it’s over. It seems very counter intuitive I know, but he’ll actually find a more satisfying sexual experience on the other side of this process. It’s really not robbing him of anything.

(6) Without the endless dopamine chasing of the porn/Internet addiction, he’ll find greater personal focus in his life as a whole. He’ll think better. Perform better. This is a real addiction he’s been facing and it’s terribly draining on him.

(7) Monogamy isn’t exactly easy. It’s not for me. I’m a higher desire person than Jennifer, but it’s the experience of being turned-on that’s the most enjoyable thing. By a conscious focus limiting myself to her, it actually is sexually frustrating in a positive sense. Much of Oneitis is simply a biological response to sexual frustration coupled with an emotional focus on a single woman. As long as she is a basically good wife, it’s pretty freaking enjoyable.

Or in other words, the “in you or on you” rule may seem like a gimmick, and to an extent it is. But it’s also going to work to make him find her more sexually attractive and help him fall in love with her again.

And even if the process to make that happen is artificial, the feelings he’ll experience as a result of it will be real.

The caveat to all this being that she’s actually into him. She’s been a total Nice Girl slaving away supporting him and being sexually cut off by him. She wants to lay him like tile.

Jennifer:  This can also be a lot of fun for her. We don’t often skip nights but the positive change in Athol’s attention toward me is noticeable the longer it goes since the last time we had sex. It’s nice to be the focus of that level of desire. Now if a girl was mildly evil…


  1. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    And if she doesn’t want to lay you like tile? I like the approach a lot, but what if she’s not at a place where she’s “supportive” of such a thing?

  2. If she doesn’t want to, that’s a different issue.

  3. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    So what’s a guy to do? How do you break the cycle? Taking matters into “my own hands” leads to less sex, which leads to more distance between us, which leads to less sex, etc… Just FYI, my wife and I are pretty even in the sex rank department (at least I think so, anyway).

  4. The Fertilizer says:

    She’s offended and hurt that he looks at porn, so she doesn’t feel like intimate contact. He needs to have sexual experience with her so that he can rewire his brain to want her instead of porn. How about this compromise as a temporary intermediate measure: she takes pornographic photos of herself and gives them to him to masturbate to?

    No. He’s denying her sex near completely, by jerking off to porn all day while she goes to work. As in hours a day of porn surfing. She wants sex and she’s punting him unless he pulls his shit together.

  5. writer.rich says:

    IMHO I think you need to replace the cycle. Not break it. I won’t say I have (or have had) an IP addiction, but I can see how the circumstances of low-sex marriage+high-speed internet+millions of MB of free porn could easily lead to it. IP is something in which I’ve always “dabbled” but when I put my foot down and committed to the MAP, I knew it had to go. It’s replacement? The gym. WITH my wife. That’s our 2x weekly ‘date’. We don’t work out together, but we are together in the same place, and return from our respective activities on a dopamine high. There are also come great articles online about ‘breaking’ the cycle.

  6. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    Good points, although I don’t really have an IP addiction (just a vivid imagination). The “outlet” one uses is, IMHO, somewhat irrelevant – either you’re with her when you come, or you’re not. I think part of my problem is that I’m probably too easily frustrated by sexual rejection (which, to be honest, happens more often than not). But I have been MAPping for about six months now (and have seen some very positive changes). I just can’t seem to wrap my mind around the whole “what to do when she doesn’t want it” conundrum. I can only play the “hey, no big deal” card so often, and I’m not going down the beta, begging and pleading route, either. Playful persistence usually goes over like a lead balloon. I feel trapped.

  7. writer.rich says:

    Cubicle Z-7 – when I get turned down, I double down on the MAP – go to my hobby, go for a jog, go to the gym alone (sends a message to wifey), crank out a project that earns some money, etc. I’ve learned that the MAP is such a ‘safe bet’ that you can’t go wrong if you double down.

  8. threemoreyears says:

    Jennifer, of course, teased out the reason this situation has limited application for most on this site – “Now if the girl was mildly evil…” Here, you have the wife ready to move mountains to achieve a normal sex life. The rest of us have wives who are at least mildly evil.

  9. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    So, after all he’s done (and she has had to do for him), she STILL wants a sexual relationship with him? WHERE ARE THESE WOMEN?!?! I have a great job, and (as far as I know) no significant impediments to what should be a great sex life, and I still get treated like the town leper. Athol, please tell your “patient” that (unless his wife is a ghastly mess, which I doubt) it looks like he’s rejecting what some of us would kill for! Might that help?

  10. Joe_Commenter says:

    Yeah, I would only agree to the in her or on her rule” if she agreed to never say no. sounds like she wants it bad, so she probably will not say no.

    She is getting a raw deal tho. Going to work, supporting the family and not getting laid for it. It’s a terrible way to live.

  11. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    I appreciate the comments – Writer.Rich, you make a good point. I’ll give your “doubling down” suggestion a try and let you know how it goes. And while I may be venting here under the safety net of anonymity, I can assure you that I refuse to let the butthurt attitude that I may have displayed here affect my marriage (anymore). I’m going to stay positive and do all I can from my end. What will be, will be.

    And congrats on the success of the Kindle book, AK. Enjoy the well-earned laurels! I can almost picture you walking around your house with your fists raised like a Klingon warrior…

  12. writer.rich says:

    Cubicle: Yes stay positive with the understanding that there will be times that you aren’t. Those times are temporary. It takes resolve and no two marriages are the same. Best of luck.

  13. Cubicle Z-7 says:

    I just noticed that Red Pill Wifey is a fellow INTJ! Not sure if she’s monitoring this, but if you are, RPW, please feel free to weigh in. I realize you only have limited information on which to base your input, but anything can help at this point. I don’t believe in unsolvable problems, but this one has me flummoxed. I’m trying my best not to lose hope, but this is sapping a tremendous amount of my energy. I know that, ultimately, I am the one who is letting it sap my energy, but for chrissakes, I just want to see something! Doc sez he doesn’t see any physical/physiological issues, she just doesn’t give a rat’s ass anymore.

  14. My husbband is honestly the most attractive man ive ever met, even with the “comfort weight” hes gained since we’ve been together. Hes gorgeous. Im almost 10 yrs younger than he is hes 33 im 24. He has a son, i have a son and we had a son about 19mos ago. I realize post delivery woman is not the sexiest or most willing necessarily but i have never been one to let him go without… he’s very well taken care of when it comes to him getting off. Im not sure when it started but some time after the baby he was much less inerested ie in the bedroom thenn i i started finding porn… ok so i get ita fter baby body. Once I start to emotionally try to get ovlose ALL th e baby weight start to tone . I amfinally comfortable with my body (like 95 percent anywa) we talk about it he seems a little more interested apologizes says he doesnt need porn sex gets better… then bam not as good again. doesnt seem to want me like he used to, i find pictures pf some porn star. Not even actual porn, not the act. Just a girl hotter than me! Mind you ive taken some pictures for him, VIDEOS even! Instead he finds a round about way to look at another girl in a fucking swimsuit to get off! How do I get past this? Ive tried so hard to just trust that he still finds me attractive but i don’t believe anything he says anymore! I just want to be enough for my husband! But its like there are naked woman and sex Everywhere you turn noq days! Airbrushed witth implants that havent had babies! I cant compare to that! Ugh sooo frustrating!!! Any words of wisdom drom anyobe would be appreciated… or just thoughts… opinions… thank you


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