Long Term Relationship Count: 3 + 1 = 4

Just reading Susan’s Cohabitation Blues post and got a memory jag about something I can’t remember if I already wrote about or not.


Men will always be lied to about female partner count. You may as well just accept that. Yeah I know some tiny handful of women don’t lie about partner count, but they look like all the ones that do, so lots of luck figuring which is which. Plus the ones who aren’t lying probably aren’t terribly strongly sexually motivated, or are still “mint in box”, which is potentially another curve ball to think about.

However, women will tell you how many guys they’ve lived with like it’s a badge of honor. It’s a proper relationship, NOT at all slutty or remotely questionable. It’s all on the up and up. Not a problem. She’s an Official Girlfriend(TM) and putting out officially. Besides, the only difference between living together and being married is “a piece of paper”.


Ah okay, let’s say you’re right.

So rather than worry about a couple of one night stands, or that thing that happened on vacation in Mexico, or anything that happened in high school… or drunk.. or in Vegas… let’s just count the cohabitations. Then you just add +1 to the total to see where you would fall in the progression should you take the next step with her.

So if she’s had three cohabitations, if you marry her, you should think of yourself being her fourth husband.



  1. The Ringmistress says:

    Paging @RedPillWifey,

    This.needs to go on the Red Pill Women reddit. Very topical.

  2. realmatt says:

    A woman with 3 relationships is pretty much done. All the fire gone, the juice squeezed out. the newness will never be there. She’s jaded and most likely shell-shocked. They’re screwing around in high school, then college, having relationship after relationship…what’s the point? And on top of all that, they STILL don’t know how to give a decent blowjob or what to do with balls. I’d feel more secure with a pornstar or hooker than some “normal” woman.

    Not that I PREFER those women. I’m just saying I would have more respect for them..or less disrespect, than I would for the girl I’m 99% sure is lying to my face and hiding mementos she clutches in one hand when angry with me, while the other is brushing a flower against her vulva, or whatever it is they do by themselves.

    Not knowing is torture. The only escape is to not care. Not caring about the lady in question is only a natural progression from there. For me, anyway.

  3. “…while the other is brushing a flower against her vulva, or whatever it is they do by themselves.”

    Ha! That is hilarious! And thank you, by the way, for using the proper word, vulva, instead of vagina which has turned into some all purpose expression for anything ‘down there’ on a female.

    I’ve only been with my husband so I’ve not had to have any awkward ‘what’s your number?’ conversations, but I’m not surprised some women would lie to help their chances in a relationship. After all, some men lie to help their chances of getting a woman to have sex with him. To-may-to, to-mah-to.

    I am surprised when the fact that some women lie so quickly leads some men into believing that ALL women or MOST women lie. It’s hard not to get defensive when you feel like someone is attacking you before they even give you a chance. If you think a quality lady can’t pick up on that resentment and/or prejudice you are fooling yourself and sabotaging your ability to attract quality women. And ditto to the women who are punishing all of mankind because all the guys they’ve ever dated have turned out to be jerks.

    There is a lot of variety in the human race, a lot. If you think all your past partners were lying bitches or cheating assholes I would encourage you to ask yourself what the one constant in all those relationships is? I really believe that is a more constructive, honest question than lamenting the moral inferiority of men to women or vise versa.

  4. Revo Luzione says:

    Great post, Athol. I think that the cohabitation count concept is valuable, a much more reliable one than the cock, er, partner count.

    So my current main squeeze, told me early on in the relationship, without me even asking, what I take to be her real partner count (low 30’s.) I believe it was the “vulnerability fitness test/disqualificaiton.” She wanted to see if I would react to it, to push her away due to the common perceived slut tell. Having been in a few rodeos before, I ignored it (but filed that little parsec of data away on the ol’ hard drive) and continued the interaction. Later, much later, after we were dating a while, the subject of partner count came up, and it was clear she didn’t remember telling me–she said something like “I’m so glad you’ve never asked me, but I’d tell you if you did.” It was practically an invitation. So I asked her. Guess what she said? 14. No shit, gentlemen, she verified a common manosphere axiom: take the number she tells says when asked, and multiply by 2.

    As for cohabitation, well that’s easier to tell–she lived with 2 dudes before her former huzzband. So it would be like I”m her fourth “husband.” But I”m not living with her now, nor wifing her up, so it’s a moot point.

  5. This is the sh** that makes me glad I married and am still with my HS sweetheart. My exBFF was pretty appalled by my relationship from the start and kinda acted like I was nuts for not “being like everyone else” and wasting my 20’s on a run of serial monogamy. She’s 25 now and on “serious” BF #3. Oh and the B could barely utter the word tampon so can’t imagine what she’s like with penises:/

  6. I’ve never lied about my number. I’m not sure why I should feel shame about it – he doesn’t about his and neither do it. I’m no ‘worse’ than he is and I don’t have different standards for sexual behaviour by gender. It always makes me shake my head when people do – exactly who do they think the men who are ‘allowed’ to have casual sex are sleeping with? Are they sharing the same 17 ‘bad’ women?

    I had two ‘serious’ (multi-year) relationships before I met my husband. My first love (age 16-19) and my university relationship (19-22). I had more casual dates/short-term boyfriends before #1 and between #1 and #2. I met my husband when I was 24. I’d been celibate since #2. There’s not a thing wrong with my drive, but I have standards and wasn’t inclined to sleep with just anyone to get off. I can take care of that on my own.

    By no stretch of the imagination was I ‘used up’ at 24, nor I am more than 20 years later. Someone can be happy, well-adjusted and stable after 2 or 3 relationships (or more for that matter), or be a completely bitter, jaded crone after none. It depends on the person.

    I’m still in love with my husband after more than 20 years, I’d marry him again tomorrow and I’m still happy to jump his bones. I didn’t need to be a virgin to be a good partner for him (nor did he for me).

  7. I’d actually be more bothered by lots of cohabitations than lots of sexual partners – the male perspective may be (probably is) different. But the way I see it, someone who has cohabited a lot has been rejected on a deep, deep level by multiple partners. This isn’t just like someone bragging about lots of one night stands, leaving a lot of people wondering why none of them came back for more. Someone got to know this person, and decided no.

    As Audrey says, there’s plenty of variance. But as a shorthand, it’s really, really bad. And shorthand is all we have to go on when we’re in the early stages. And it applies to men too. A man with plenty of cohabitations screams that he’s fine with stringing women along, and getting all the benefits of marriage without the responsibilities, and will move on at some point.

  8. I agree about the many cohabs thing. While I had other lovers before my husband, he’s the only man I’ve ever lived with. We did live together before we got married, but I was only willing to do that because I knew that marriage was on the table if things went well for both of us.

    My husband briefly lived with another woman before me (several years earlier). He had some doubts so had actually kept the rental on his own apartment just in case. When she displayed early BSC behaviour, he walked. While I’d have preferred on some level if he hadn’t been down that path before, once wasn’t enough to put me off. If he’s lived with 2 or 3 women I’d have assumed I was part of a cycle and I wouldn’t have been interested. Sexual activity (within reason) wouldn’t put me off, but making and breaking commitments is a DLV to me.

  9. Exactly.

  10. Joe_Commenter says:

    Audrey you had 2 priors to your husband. That is not that many and heck, why should you lie about that. Most women have 20, 30, even 50 is a real possibility. The male thinking is that if she has such a major malfunction that 20+ men have rejected her, or she has rejected 20+ men, there is something wrong with her. I refuse to marry a toxic fixer upper. This gut level male reaction is well documented in studies, showing that chances of divorce rise greatly with each pre-marriage female notch count. There is no shame involved at all. The women make the choice to sleep around. It’s just a choice.

    Understand that men look for different things when evaluating a hook-up vs a marriage. I will fuck a girl with a 1000 notches. But marry her? I wouldn’t wish that on Ted Bundy, let alone me. Women understand this quite clearly, and that’s why they lie about cock count.

  11. @Joe_Commenter:

    “Most women have 20, 30…”

    Uh, honey? Where exactly are these women? Because they don’t constitute “most”, and if they do in the circles you put yourself in then that is a problem you need to address.

  12. Joe_Commenter says:

    Liz: You are right. Since this article was addressing women who are not currently married, I assumed a few adjectives. Most unmarried, 35+ women would have 20+ partners. 20 notches is easy to achieve. Start having sex at 16 years old (is this not average these days?). 19 years later, she’s had around 1 lover/year. 20 notches easy.

    I am counting them all. See Athol’s comment about what happened on vacation in Mexico, or anything that happened in high school… or drunk.. or in Vegas. Women like to act as if these don’t count. Fine. But I think they matter.

  13. Agree with Joe.

    I may one of the “good girls” who met her husband as a teenager but I’m going to surprise many of you when I tell you that my girlfriends who confess to 30-50 partners before the age of 30 (which is a lot even in my eyes) are so dedicated to their husbands and the girls who got married early are “curious” and guess what they are doing behind their husbands backs. If their weren’t children involved, I’d take photos and send them to the poor husband. These are not just friends, but acquaintances and work colleagues and women of many different backgrounds. I’ve come to the conclusion that there are a few of us who are happy with one partner (seems to be many on this website) but there are more who end up curious and need at least 10-15 partners before they can “honestly” settle down.

    Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but please dont shoot the messenger.

    Jennifer, I’m so jealous you are being so desired. I wish i had the power to be evil (with my husband). LOL

  14. Shadow_Nirvana says:


    I thought it was the opposite way around. You know, something like, “Promiscuity before marriage” = “lesser bonding with spouse”. On the other hand there’s this arguement that if you don’t play the field a bit, you might feel “curious”.

    So which one is it?

  15. @Shadow Nirvana

    I dont know anything anymore honey. My perception of the world is those who didn’t experience life, are going gung ho sleeping around but we aren’t all like that…I was a virgin when I got together with my husband and I’m not like that even though he hasn’t touched me in months no matter what I do for him, wear, dress in, say etc… I’m so confused. I was told if I got my body looking a smoking 10, my husband would die for me and that didn’t work. At the end of the day, I’m so grateful for the knowledge I obtained here, because I’ve gotten so many compliments, men chasing me that I know it’s not me after all.

    If I was a man, I’d look for a woman who had anywhere between 5-15 partners and someone who displayed a love for it one year after the relationship started.

  16. I’m a bit late to comment on this post, but what about a boys weekend in Vegas? My husband (organizer) with two of his friends (doesn’t have tons) who are divorced now. The two other guys are also friends and frequently get toghether because they are single and they get into some “interesting” situations. One does have a serious girlfriend now.

  17. joe sixpack says:

    Holly, the lack of detail you give makes it difficult to give good answers. Clearly you are at least a little bit worried about the weekend in Vegas. Do you live in Vegas? How do you feel about him doing this?

    I can tell you this: I have been married for 25 years. If I suggested such a weekend to my wife, I can tell you her answer would be “no flipping way”. And then she would subject me to an hour long discussion of why I would go for a weekend w/ my friends and not take her. My wife is not a domineering woman. But she is very committed to the marriage and does a great job of mate guarding me. I say this not to brag, but to point out that perhaps this is a situation where you need to assert your opinion.

    TO me it sounds fishy. But I don’t know your husband. Maybe it’s not. But I think you need to think about what you want. If you are OK w/ the boys weekend then let him do it. If you do not think it’s OK, then put your foot down. I personally think he’s asking you to tolerate a lot here. You have good reason to put up a fight.

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