MMSL is the Manosphere Root Beer Part Two

Comment on Why Relationship Momentum Matters. As you read, watch everything play out exactly as you would expect… assuming the genders were reversed.

Audrey:  I recently ‘guarded’ my husband from a friend in the midst of going through a divorce. I’ve known her for years because our kids are friends. My husband casually mentioned that he was sending her some research on an item she was buying. I asked why, and he said that she’d emailed to ask him for help making a selection.

Pardon me? She approached HIM and not ME? Me, I’d have nicely told her to research it herself (lots of online info, library has Consumers Report, etc.). My life is busy enough. I don’t do homework for those who should be able to help themselves. I had to point out to him that she was playing the damsel in distress and that he was buying it. He was completely taken aback and pointed out that he was just trying to help as he would anyone. I told him that I knew there was nothing wrong with what HE did, but would he mind her estranged hubby calling me up and asking me to come over and help him with something I’m better at, such as picking paint colours or furniture for his new digs? He paused. And then the lights went on and he saw what I was seeing.

I asked if he thought this woman with a master’s degree was really incapable of reviewing ratings on her own, or did he think it served her purposes better to play the victim and have other men do things for her. After all, other women’s husbands are safe since they can’t even expect a ‘perk’ for doing it. She just touches their arms, flatters them by saying how good they are at these things and how much she appreciates the help. You know, the stuff that many wives forget to do since busy spouses tend to take each other for granted over the years.

He went from thinking I was nuts to being irked about potentially being played. I think it’s safe to assume that she won’t be getting any more help from MY man. Besides, Miss I’m So Lost Since Hubby Left has three strapping sons at home, all well over six feet. If she really needs a man to do things, she needs to tap one of the walking appetites that lives with her.

What amused me the most was how THRILLED my husband was to have me ‘guard’ him. Seriously, he was all puffed up about it. I earned big points there and I wasn’t even trying to. LOL

Athol:  Audrey’s completely correct response reads exactly like we teach a husband to do when someone starts honing in on their wife. There needs to be a word for female cockblocking.

Anyway…

I realize probably a minority of my readers and certainly a decent number of other manosphere types think I’ve lost my mind and/or sold out with the new book. Sure it’s a softer approach, but the truth is I see the exact same issues playing out over and over in both sexes. 90% of the wives on the MMSL forum are the female version of Betaized Nice Guys. Too patient, too submissive, too frightened to stand up for themselves, no inner game, endlessly orbiting and sexually frustrated.

The overwhelming majority of my advice applies just as well to women as it does to men.

Get to the gym, get in shape. Dress well. Don’t allow yourself to be mistreated or taken advantage of. Be kind and affectionate, but only if you’re being treated with basic respect. Get good at something. Ask for the sex you what. Be loyal, but also be prepared to walk if the relationship is a disaster. Play up your sexuality and gender. Instigate, isolate, escalate.

I won’t lie and say the extra money isn’t nice and that the book isn’t more commercial. Of course I wanted to make money and sell more books. Duh.

But we gotta make Red Pill women, or it’s going to get very lonely for all the Red Pill men the manosphere is making.

This isn’t anything new. I wrote Why MMSL Is The Manosphere’s Root Beer nearly two years ago. I’m playing a long game here.

When a Blue Pill Nice Guy with a serious relationship problem comes stumbling into the Manosphere looking for answers, he comes with a pro-female mindset. After coming across variants of “All women are devious whores!” a few dozen times – something possible in the comments of a single post on some blogs – he can easily become repulsed and move on in his search for truth. Then we call him a Mangina for good measure. We do this because insults make other people listen better and consider our viewpoint.

Likewise, sympathetic women reading the same venom quickly become unsympathetic women. At some point we’re going to want some things to go to a vote and there are more women than men that can vote. Therefore we need the support of women to at least some degree.

So I see my role in the Manosphere as a diplomatic outpost. Some people start here and then explore the rest of the Manosphere. Some people start elsewhere in the Manosphere and get directed here after being jilted by what they first discover. Me being happily married, having a great sex life and generally being a quirky Vulcan makes MMSL taste like… root beer.

So watch the video, it’s a classic.

If other bloggers want review copies, let me know where to send them.

Transparent 3Dcover for website ad

Comments

  1. I just started blogging- I’ll gladly take a book off your hands:) Oh and yes I find it HILARIOUS when women bitch about your site bc often times they’re the exact blue pill type that you try to help. Frankly, women are not told to stand up for themselves enough- basically hardly at all actually- in our culture. Then we wonder why women have trouble getting away from a “creep” and end up getting raped bc they were “just trying to be nice”. Oh and BTW it’s been bugging me for a while but the FB like button messes up A LOT so sharing is a pain:/

  2. someguy says:

    “Ask for the sex your what.”
    Athol sez wha?
    (Kind of reads okay as-is, actually!)

  3. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    I completely agreed with what you said in your “Why MMSL Is The Manosphere’s Root Beer” post, because sometimes the manosphere seems to go a bit too far with its assumptions. Add to that the fact that there are like a lot of different writers with different viewpoints, you get a weird combo.

  4. “There needs to be a word for female cockblocking.”
    There is. It’s called clam-jamming.
    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clam-Jam

  5. I’m fascinated by Audrey’s situation and how smart she was to recognize it right away and cut it off. And the fact that her husband was thrilled by her response! This story is a great “word to the wise” to all wives.

    Sorry if people in the manosphere think you have sold out. You can ruminate on that while driving to the bank to deposit your large checks from sales of the new book! Seriously though, while the new book is definitely softer, it contains a tremendous amount of useful advice for both men and women. I’m going to start dealing with an “energy drainer” this weekend (a thing, not a person) that I recognized after reading the book. And I’m buying a copy for my young adult son, who has been rather slow to make the transition from college grad to young adult. He does have a real job, but beyond that he’s still living like a college student. I really think that the first half of the book will help him see that he needs to energize some areas of his life and start moving forward.

  6. But clam-jam sounds like an affliction. Lol!
    I’m pretty new to the ‘manosphere’ but have noticed the same thing. At some point, the manosphere is going to have to realize a really bad “advocate” can be much worse than an enemy, or it will lose its relevance (and that would be a bad thing for everyone).

    Some of the stuff pushed around those sites undermines their credibility more than any determined Feminazi ever could. I think of Littlefinger (of Game of Thrones) who would pay people to pretend to be his enemy.
    With that, I’m buying your book Athol. I’m all about sel-improvement. :-)

  7. OMG James. Clam-Jam. That’s awesome.

  8. I’m guessing you probably read my review, which both celebrated the new message tone for the masses and lamented the softness for those used to a harder edge. I think the extent of impact for the “blue pill” world will be much larger for your new book and is like a flavored dose of medicine instead of just giving it to them straight with no chaser. It’s good man, hope you can continue to turn on the lightbulb for both men and women alike, with a message that sits well in whatever writing you choose. Wishing you all the success and hope your new coaching venture takes off with a flourish! – Alex

  9. I’ll be honest, I’ve been so busy promoting my book I haven’t had time to read and review Athol’s new book, but it is forthcoming.

    I’d like to address the whole issue of Athol’s place in the Manosphere, and the reaction that some have to their initial forays into the medium.

    Athol is quite right to push to create (or, more accurately, reveal) more Red Pill women, and that neither makes him a traitor to the Manosphere over-all or a sell-out (although I do hope you’re cashing in, man, you deserve it). While many voices in the Manosphere howl about how unsavory the prospects for married life are for a dude in the West these days, the fact is that plenty of men who are actively pursuing their masculinity prefer to do so in the company of women who share that goal. Without women who understand Red Pill concepts and the cancer that feminism has brought to the social body, then the choices for Red Pill men will be severely limited.

    Just as every man’s pursuit of masculinity is different, every woman’s search for feminine fulfillment is likewise different. The evolved concept of Men Going Their Own Way, a Manosphere staple, must include the capacity to Go Your Own Way leading a woman willing to follow you, or it lacks completeness. Athol, Average Married Dad and other bloggers who have embraced this concept have, for two years or so, formed the backbone of this nascent concept, but it must and should persist. MGTOW must evolve into MMGTOW (Married Men Going Their Own Way) in order for the idea to carry any meaningful legitimacy.

    MAP and MMSLP are two different books for two different audiences, but that doesn’t make either one of them obsolete or pandering. It makes them two different books for two different audiences. And if you don’t think that one author can master two different audiences like that, I’d like to remind you that Ian Fleming wrote all of the James Bond books . . . and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

  10. I always called the female version of cockblocking. “Box blocking”.

  11. ” I’d like to remind you that Ian Fleming wrote all of the James Bond books . . . and Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.” LOL – I remember bringing Chitty Chitty Bang Bang home from my elementary school library, and my mother being quite shocked that it was written by Ian Fleming. She had to review it before I was allowed to read it!

  12. LOL Ian, it sounds like Athol’s new book is going to be the successful intro to the manosphere that you failed to write.

  13. This post hits on something I’ve been wondering about for a while: is MMSL advice only applicable to hetero males? My interest in the matter is that I’m a homosexual masculine male, and I’m wondering how much of Athol’s (seemingly wonderful) advice I can apply in my own life. At a glance, I’d assume not much, since (if I understand correctly) much of it is based on EvoPsych, and that real differences in psychology exist between the sexes, so advice on female triggers won’t apply too well to males. Plus, there’s the lovely confusing fact that some structural differences are observed in the homosexual male brain vs the heterosexual male brain. This post, however, shows a male responding positively to a female taking an aggressive ‘guarding’ action, something that’s counterintuitive based on the rest of the theory.

    So my question becomes: Athol, in your experience (if you have any) with homosexual relationship dynamics/psychology, how much would you say your standard MMSL lessons apply?

    Also, this is my first comment, been a reader for a few months. Love the blog, love the insight. Really opened my eyes on some things. I sincerely thank you for putting this information out there in this form.

    I think you’d find the Primer had some good insights about relationships in a general sense, but be very clearly slanted to the hetero male audience. The MAP book however you’d likely find “mildly hetero” focused, but 95% of the book applies to everyone and anyone. It’s something I was quite conscious about in writing it. I refer to “primary partner” more than “husband” or “wife” for example.

  14. What if the husband gets defensive at getting his judgment questioned?

  15. The most important point a man can take in the world is probably that he needs to learn to be as charming as possible. Competence without charm is doomed to either failure, or underperformance, while the greatest rewards go to the most charming. Women are drawn to charm like honey bees are drawn to sugar water. Charm, class, sophistication, confidence. The goal is to be James Bond to your fellow countrymen and Cassanova for your wife. The trouble with too much of the manosphere is that is lacks enough charm to get broad audiences to listen, even if all the knowledge is indeed correct….

  16. Haniel, y u gotta troll?

    @Tyler: The new book applies for sure, IMO.

  17. RedDirtGirl says:

    Well done, Audrey! My answer to Jane, “What if the husband gets defensive at getting his judgment questioned?” is this: If you care about your appearance and the sweetness factor with which you treat your husband, and are making regular deposits into the sex account, (and I DO mean regular!) there is a slim to none chance that he will become defensive. Unless he is an asshole, or interested in the attention of your friend. In which case, see my first point and get his attention back home where it belongs.

  18. Interesting comment, Athol. I’m not sure I’d consider myself Red Pill, but since I haven’t read the book (yet), I guess I don’t have a strong opinion.

    I’m pretty Alpha in my own right – very much so for a woman. Nothing Beta or timid about me, and that’s been true since I was a kid. Power doesn’t like a vacuum? Luckily, I’m here. ;) I’m exaggerating somewhat, but I’m accustomed to command and I’m good at it. I’m an executive at a large global organization and have been a recognized leader of others (professionally) since my mid-20s. Unofficially, longer than that. It isn’t exactly that I assume I should be given command (social and/or volunteer activities and the like), but it just tends to happen because most people want to ride on the bus, not drive it. For those into Myers Briggs, I’m an INTJ.

    Am I submissive? Really, no. Sexually? Absolutely, but that’s my lizard brain. I can’t do it outside of the bedroom. Even when I’ve tried (sort of as an experiment), I just can’t do it. It’s not my nature. I’m pretending and it feels false. Then I just go do what I wanted anyway. I used to consider myself a feminist, but I’m not sure that applies either. I like men, and certainly don’t think they’re the enemy. One of my pet peeves is how men are portrayed as incompetent buffoons in media. From ridiculous sitcoms (if the guy was that stupid he wouldn’t be able to dress himself) to kids’ books like the Berenstein Bears (where Papa Bear is all but another child that wise Mama Bear has to manage). These characterizations offend me in precisely the same way that misogyny offends me. Men and women have equal worth. We’re different, but portraying a whole gender as evil/stupid/marginally competent is ridiculous. Fathers are critically important, and I don’t like to see that diminished. I’ve been pointing the double standard to my kids since they were little; once upon a time women were portrayed as near children, and now we’re decided to have a go at men. It’s nonsense.

    @Jane, I’d never be married to someone who was offended by me questioning his judgment. That kind of insecurity is a huge DLV to me. I didn’t mock my husband or suggest that he was doing anything wrong, I pointed out that someone was using him. He respects my opinions, just as I respect his. I think he was pleased because he thought I was jealous. I wasn’t (because I didn’t see any reason to be), but I’m not about to stand by and let someone take advantage of his good nature. Particularly by pulling the Damsel in Distress bit. I got no time for that nonsense. Jealous? No. Territorial? Damn straight. Mine. Just as I’m his. Not only did he not think I was behaving inappropriately, he told me that when you’re married to a good woman, it’s easy to forget that not all the others are like that.

    Is there such a thing as Purple Pill? Maybe I’m that. I’m attracted to Alpha to a point; I don’t suffer fools gladly and have no time for arrogant asses. Beta certainly isn’t the answer for me; they just get chewed up and spit out. Too nice, no backbone and no opinions that aren’t a reflection of mine? See ya. Not worthy. My husband is self-assured enough to be fine with me having the substantially larger income, likes my kick ass and take names tendencies (providing they aren’t directed at him) and gives me lots of good Beta; he’s affectionate with me, warms me up in a cold bed, gets me a blanket if he can tell that I’m cold watching TV, kills the spiders that scare me. That could be bad Beta in some men; it’s not in him because it’s part of how he displays love. Just like filling my car up if he notices that I’m below half a tank but not saying a word about it. He just does nice stuff for me, quietly and without expecting anything. He values different things than I do so I do those for him; make him the coffee cake that his mother used to make for him before she died, bring him tea at night, occasionally call him at work (we’re both usually too busy) to tell him I love him and appreciate him when I know he’s having a crappy day. We’re happy, at least I think so. He says he is. He acts like he is.

    I don’t think I’m hamstering when I say we’re co-captains. We have our areas of speciality, and tend to defer to the other’s greater knowledge in those areas. That just makes sense. I don’t need a penis to have stronger gifts in some areas than he does. He’s much better at many things that I am. It all balances each other out. We’re partners, and make each other stronger.

    In short, I’m fine with the ass smack. He can even spank me if he wants – it’s even encouraged. Just don’t expect it to serve as behaviour modification. As for giving me the assigned tasks that are sometimes recommended here? Yeah, that’ll just get HIS ass kicked. ;)

  19. A little girl game testing….I just asked him if he’d heard from X again. Got another big smile and an assurance that I have nothing to worry about because she’s not half the woman I am. I told him that I know that already but if she was misguided enough to attempt another run at him I’d ‘learn her the error of her ways.’

    Yup, he likes the guarding bit. Men. LOL

  20. Hm…been giving the cockblocking some thoughts. Since I’m Canadian…I think I’m going to refer to it as a Beaver Dam.

  21. I call it “clit blocking”.

  22. I call it “back off and get your hands of my f*ing man, trampy ho”!
    (probably needs some finessing, but seems to work) :-)

  23. Mate guarding isn’t something that comes naturally to me. I’d be afraid of my DH getting defensive, which is why I asked in my earlier comment. You guys are all right. If the health of the marriage is what matters, then I should be able to “mate guard” when I note something off. Thanks for the replies to my question.

  24. Shadow_Nirvana says:

    @Audrey “I don’t think I’m hamstering when I say we’re co-captains.”

    Not hamstering but probably missing the point of Captain/First Officer. Don’t forget, FO isn’t someone who never captains the plane (in fact when things are dandy they prolly get a near equal time flying as main pilot.) Nor is a Captain a tyrant with an “I’m always right” attitude.

    Although, I didn’t really get the part about assigning tasks and behaviour modification, can you elaborate? Of course, I don’t believe that when things are going okay and both the husband and the wife are committed to making things work as best as they can, anybody’s gonna suggest tactics of control or influence to destabilize stuff. But what if things came to a “not so okay” place?

  25. @Shadow_Nirvana,

    It’s not so much that I’m missing the point of Captain/First Officer, it’s just that I don’t think it really applies in my marriage. Beyond that, I’m not sure I’m interested in that dynamic. I enjoy this site and have gotten lots out of it, but I cherry-pick what I think might be relevant to my life. I don’t think I’m red pill, but neither am I blue. Hence the purple reference. It doesn’t really feel like either of us are in charge; we’re pretty egalitarian. I think I remember reading somewhere on the site that a portion of women really aren’t submissive; I think I’m one of those. I love my husband, I respect my husband, I try to treat him well and hope that he thinks I do, but I don’t see him as the leader in the relationship. An equal but different partner, yes, but not as someone who outranks me and can call that into service when desired. I really enjoy his masculinity and despite the fact that he gives me lots of good Beta, he’s nobody’s fool and certainly wouldn’t let me push him around. When we have different views on things, we generally hear each other out and then make a decision together. If one person feels really strongly and the other doesn’t much care, the person it’s important to generally will prevail. If we both feel strongly and disagree, we’ll try to find another path that we both feel ok with. He doesn’t do the Taken in Hand bit and hear me out but then ultimately make the decision for the family. We’re both adults with right of veto on important stuff.

    We have not fully discussed but well understood Terms of Engagement in our marriage: Monogamy, sobriety, mutual respect and reasonable behaviour, financial responsibility, non-violence and commitment to family and each other are expected and required. We support each other in reaching whatever professional levels we have the capacity and desire for regardless of gender and step back and let the other person take lead on areas where they have the obvious higher skill set whether it’s a ‘man’ or ‘woman’ job. We specialize along some traditional gender lines but not all.

    The assigning tasks comment was based a bit on some comments I’ve read on the forum where men talk about telling women what tasks they will complete and women are happy to comply. That doesn’t offend me in the least – every couple gets to decide what works for them – but I have my own list, thanks. We generally will talk briefly before the weekend to see if there’s anything special the other person was hoping to do but he doesn’t tell me that I’m going to make dinner tonight or to get the laundry done, for instance. I take care of the laundry but do it when it’s convenient. Him attempting to manage how/when I take care of something that is mine to manage would just piss me off. And vice-versa.

    As for behaviour modification, I was just being flip. A spanking certainly wouldn’t incent me to behave differently but since he wouldn’t attempt to have it serve that purpose (he has another goal in mind ;) ), it’s all good.

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