Often the Hamster is Just Filibustering.

Athol:  I thought this comment on Age Gaps are a Relationship Stress warranted it’s own post. Pay careful attention to the fact that he clearly wants the relationship to work, but there’s this underlying structural effect making it harder going than it might otherwise be. Also she appears to have genuinely helped and invested in him, so that contribution acts as something he counts as a credit in her favor.

ToyBoy:  Well… that’s … ugh…

That’s hit a couple of things on the head for me, and I don’t like it.

I’ve historically been something of a manosphere lurker – but I’ve been away for a long time.  The last few days I’ve had a heavy hankering to come and re-motivate my self improvement side (I’ve gotten a little static recently) by digging through the archives, hence my commenting on such an old post.

I’m the younger man you described in that post: 7 year age gap, though I’m in my late 20s and she in her mid 30s.  We got together a couple of years ago, and at that point I was a bit of a psychological mess: quite depressed, effectively an alcoholic, little motivation, not very good with women (though improving as a result of the red pill)…

And my partner has been incredibly helpful and supportive, and has massively contributed towards me sorting myself out.  I’m much healthier – physically and mentally – and I’ve embarked on some major career moves (starting up my own company, going back into postgrad education etc).  I’m also finally sorting out some long-needed aesthetic improvements (eg, my teeth were ruined as a result of my depressions and drinking – I’m now in the midst of straightening, whitening, capping etc).

And recently the loyalty tests have started.  It’s in a jokey way, but several times in the last month or two she’s commented that she’s excited to see my ‘new smile’, but that she hopes I don’t then use it to leave her for a younger model.

And over this same period I’ve really noticed that my sex rank is higher than I thought it was when we got together.

NOW, here’s the very important thing: I love this woman, and I want us to remain together.  I really really do.  I have no intention of cheating on her.  I’ve recently moved in with her, and I love it.  We have a very healthy and happy relationship, and the sex life is pretty good (the only slight issue is that we’re both very busy, so tend to be a bit knackered at the end of the day, so sometimes we have to wait – *gasp* – a week or so).  I genuinely want to stay with her forever.

However, I worry about my biological imperative and the future.  My sex rank has improved over the last few years, definitely.  And I’m just now getting into the late 20s / early 30s peak that I read so much about.  And I’m improving my fitness.  And my career is taking off.  And I’m noticing more and more that I get positive attention from younger women, and that I like it.

And she is in her mid 30s, and struggles with her figure.  She’s not fat, but she’s not thin either, and once the weight is on it is unlikely to come off.  And I know that that is effecting my attraction to her already.

Example: last night I was at an event without her, where there were several early-to-mid 20s women, and it really struck me how strong their sex appeal was: the beauty of their faces, and the shape of their bodies, and how just by their existing I wanted to talk to them, to impress them, to have them like me…  and later in the evening, I’m sat in up bed with my partner, and I’m looking at a slightly less tight figure, and a slightly older face, and there’s a roll of fat, and the simple truth is that she doesn’t inspire the same automatic desire…

I’m not a fool.  I know that’s going to happen with ANYONE you have an LTR with, and how the male libido seeks variety.  BUT – I don’t like that I’m already feeling this, knowing it’s likely to get more pronounced over the next few years and beyond.

I’m not sure what the point of my comment is – probably just a chance for me to get some of that off my chest.  I find it an odd position to be in: I want this relationship to last – really, it’s bloody fantastic.  And the age gap doesn’t cause any problems that wouldn’t exist in another relationship, but perhaps it magnifies one.

A final thought: like I said, I wasn’t very good with women and probably underestimated my sex rank.  So I’ve not had much experience beyond drunk one night stands and crappy proto-relationships before this.  And there is a part of me – a part I am REALLY not proud of – that sort of resents the possibility of not properly experiencing being with some young women at some point.  Call it my inner PUA: there is a very real part of me that wants to sleep around with a variety of young women, and it’s never done it… that is the dangerous impulse.  That’s the one I have to keep down.  But it seems like more and more it’s waking up.    That worries me.  I don’t want this relationship to go sour.  And if it does I don’t want the reason to be me being horny.  But it’s always going to be there…


Athol: So TL:DR…  Body Agenda says leave, his Literate (Higher) Self says stay. The Hamster is filibustering.

I don’t mean that to sound like I’m making fun of him. This is an all too common issue I see. Truly every single time I see a younger man / older woman pairing come to the forum, I groan knowing how hard things will be to fix and hold together.



  1. Joe_Commenter says

    Athol, do you think it is wise for this man to confront his wife with this issue? It seems to me that the dude had better tell his wife to step up her game or he will lose attraction for her. It seems only fair to warn her.

  2. JD says

    I’d vote for ending the relationship. You will come to resent and hate her for holding you back. She’ll know you’re only staying out of gratitude. Far better to end it cleanly before you start cheating and hurt her worse.

    Her mistake was taking on a fixer-upper for a partner; does that ever work for anybody, man or woman?

    Just don’t go back to her after you’re done playing; not even a booty call. She sounds like the type that will put up with anything. Be better than that.

  3. Tom says


    He *definitely* needs to, not “confront,” but “take the lead” wih his partner.

    Confronting her will just lead to chaos, and will discourage her. He let his body go before, and now she is letting hers go. Same issue in some ways, but if it keeps going that way he won’t be able to get it up for her, and the relationship will have to fall apart. Take a look at this post ( http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/its-not-erectile-dysfunction-its-erectile-discrimination/ ) and be warned.

    She needs to become a MILF, because guys just can’t live and succeed when sexual frustration starts to become overwhelming, and if this girl keeps on going the way she’s going, it *will* happen.

    So how should he manage this?
    1) Stop apologizing for his desires as a man. Much of his original message was cringeworthy.
    2) Set standards, especially w.r.t. her weight and the offensive tummy roll, and communicate them in a *positive* way to her (this also causes serious attraction in women, they are turned on by a guy who stands up for himself, even when it’s in regard to their bad behavior.)
    3) Use language to plant visions of the feelings she’ll have when she gets her act together, and anchor them (NLP) to himself, then share what turns him on
    4) Use push-pull to amplify her motivation
    5) reward her for positive results.

    Concerning push-pull, IME *nothing* works so well in getting chicks to get with the FAP like the nuclear option: “I think we need to start seeing other people”

  4. Just another guy says

    At 26 I married a widow of 40. We have a daughter. 24 years later i am still very happy and have but one regret, that we didnt have more children (we never stopped trying but the bio clock is real). I am not interested in other women and my wife works out two to three times a week to stay fit. As for sex, we are active (2 to 4x a week) and while sometimes too tired at night, that just means it is more likely in the morning, or before dinner.

    If you are crazy in love with her and you have the same desire for children, then get married and make her your focus… and start having more sex. Also repent and go to church. etc.

  5. says

    I think that if he’s having these thoughts now, they’re not going to slack off anytime soon, but eat at him. He’s not married…. I dunno. I think you’d be doing her a favor by letting her go now, particularly if she wants kids at some point. Otherwise, you’re wasting her time and yours.

  6. Hope says

    Both of them need to up their game.

    As for whether or not to break up, that’s a personal decision for them. Exceptions can and do happen, but they take more work and effort.

  7. A.B. Dada says

    What’s with his negging himself?

    His “late 20s” and her “mid 30s”

    Spin hamster spin.

    He is “not even 30″ and she’s “well into her 30s” he means.

    Nice post title by the way.

  8. Passing Stranger says

    My wife is 15 years older than me. Not in itself a problem. In my case:
    a) she got pregnant a month after the wedding, gained a lot of weight and never got back into shape.
    b) her sex drive is “once a week” rather than my “at least twice a day”.
    c) she gets upset if I even discuss the kinkier stuff.
    However, A is a potential problem for any couple, regardless of age gap, and B and C are things you can probably work out through adequate communication BEFORE you commit, unless you’re stupid as I was.

  9. RedPillJunky says

    Sucks that he’s already been with her for 7 years. He’s wasted a lot of her clock already. He needs to move on before he wastes any more. By trying to be the nice guy, he’s actually being quite an asshole.

  10. Chuck says

    I will chime in one this one, since I am in a similar situation. I’ll try to put it out there somewhat crudely and honestly too. My wife is 7 years older than me… When I met her I was actually fairly successful with women. I had already had plenty of different sexual partners, many younger than me, most the same age, and some older… I was 27 and she was 34. I asked her out because I thought she was hot, had a great body, was well groomed and dressed, and mainly I wanted to have sex with her. She had a perfect waist to hip ratio, size 5-6..I assumed she might be a couple years older than me, but I never would have guessed 7. She was perfectly fit and worked out regularly. She was VERY young looking and very pretty without makeup. Most of my relationships would I could tell that a woman wasn’t what I was looking for long term usually by the end of the first date… Something would come up and I just “knew” this wasn’t the one woman I could be with forever. I just kept having great sex with her and I figured eventually some deal breaker would show up and after a few dates- months I would move on to another woman… It’s just the deal breaker, other than her age never came… No annoying habits I couldn’t stand…. No entitled princess complex… She could cook, enjoyed it, and didn’t consider it below her as a modern woman…. Early in our relationship I was still getting booty calls sometimes because I had been plate spinning, she was just entertained by it and told me she understood why they were calling, but she knew that I was with her so she was the lucky one. Every time I turned around I caught her demonstrating kindness and loyalty… To her family, children, animals, the homeless, the sick, the blind, the injured… I always struggled connecting intellectually with the women I dated, but she was smart too… and Doctorate educated, and from a good family whose parents stayed together their entire lives…She had older sisters that also looked younger and beautiful that were all also happily married on their first husbands with cute well behaved children…She had perfect credit and was good with money…She didn’t smoke, drink much, or use drugs…She was a good aunt to her nieces and nephews and warm and kind to my family… She never complained about much of anything, didn’t take any medications, and had an active lifestyle…The list goes on…..All my family and friends loved her and considered her my best “catch” so far… and honestly I reached a point where the debate in my mind wasn’t that I could find a single woman better than her, because I really didn’t think I could…. I mean sure I knew I could swap out more youth, but it would probably come with higher maintenance or more drama…. So the debate wasn’t that I could do better for a wife, but whether or not I was ready to settle down with one woman or not… I was having a lot of fun as a single man… I didn’t have many lonely nights, but I also didn’t have very many nights with women that I ever pictured loving over the long term either. I knew I could easily go back to dating multiple women, but I also knew that I wanted a wife and a family in the long run… So I took the plunge and married her…. Fast forward to today, I am 33 and she is 40. I was already doing great in my career back then and now I am doing better. Everything about her that seemed like it was great, it turns out it was all true. She has been a better wife than I originally expected I would have someday. We have two gorgeous, intelligent, outgoing children that get us a lot of praise from their preschool teachers, family members, and strangers. We are pretty wealthy, live in a big fancy house, drive nice vehicles. She doesn’t look like a 20 year old, but she still looks beautiful, and is plenty hot enough to keep me excited to have sex with her. She has gained about 10 lbs and doesn’t have the firm bikini body she used to, but she has also spent most of our marriage pregnant. Her first two pregnancies went perfect, and gave us smart healthy children. Her last two pregnancies unfortunately ended in miscarriage. She has turned into a nearly perfect attentive mother. I was never certain on how many children I wanted, but I kind of knew going in with her that we wouldn’t be able to have 4+ children. If that was a priority for me, I probably would have married younger… Honestly, I would also probably feel worse about my decision if our children had major birth defects too…. Not politically correct to say, but, I am just putting it out there…. So as it is, I feel like things have turned out well. We treat each other with love and respect, and I don’t really ever picture us divorcing unless I start majorly screwing things up… We have sex 2-4 times a week and she still feels warm, tight, and moist. I still easily reach multiple orgasms per a session and she does sometimes. I do worry about the effects of menopause someday though…I do miss the trills of having multiple women the same day or spending all weekend just eating and having sex over and over (we don’t do either of those things), but honestly I have a hard time remembering the names of some of them women I used to do that with, so everything in life has its trade-offs… If my wife ever did divorce me I know that I could do really well as a single man, and I could probably increase the amount of sex I am having with someone a little younger and hotter, but I don’t think I would be on net happier…. And I would be exposing myself to the chance of STD’s again, because bare sex feels so much better….Plus I always worried about having children with mediocre mothers while I was a mostly absent father, and all of those risks have went away too… So, my advice would be that if she is otherwise the perfect woman that you always pictured yourself finding, or even a little better, than ignore the age issue, but if not then you should move on…..

  11. Hmmm says

    Also, I have been in the position of helping my younger boyfriend get himself on a much better footing. He left after 5 years when he reached age 50 as his sex appeal to younger female population had grown due to his improved physical and economic condition. Not the loyal sort. I wonder if the next girl will be so good to or for him.
    That is always something to consider.
    If you are a very young man and have had little experience with sex before this glorious creature you are with now entered your life, I would say that it is normal for you to feel these “stirrings” when amount the younger girls. I think it is important to feel you are sexually happy in your relationship. I hate to point out the obvious, but if you have had little experience it is natural to be curious. Once a person’s curiosity is satisfied, they might find they had what they wanted all along. I would certainly discuss this matter with her frankly and not string her along eternally. It sounds like she loves you and has been very kind to you. That is rare.

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