Relationship Power vs Give and Take

@ernestern:  From my interpretations of the MAP, it is basically an exercise to put you in a situation where you are giving less to a relationship and taking more out of it.  In a perfect MAP, it would balance out to a point you are putting in as much as you are taking out, leaving both parties happy.

Athol:  Close, but not quite right. There’s two elements here you’re merging into a single thought. Let me separate them so you see the process better.

(1) Power. The MAP is about putting yourself in a situation where you no longer need your partner. So you aren’t weak toward them.

For example, I could if I liked, dump Jennifer and basically walk right now. I’d find someone new relatively quickly and my life would continue on. She could try the same thing… and it’s not going to go quite as well for her as it would for me. I don’t mean that to sound full of myself, it’s just how the Sexual Marketplace is slanted in women’s favor for the young and men’s favor for the older.

The takeaway is that in relationship terms, I have power over her and thus control the relationship.

(2) Give and Take. The MAP is about finding ways to balance out the give and take so both people in the relationship are getting what they want and need from it.

So for Jennifer and myself, we do have a fairly balanced relationship in terms of what we do for each other day-to-day. We both love and care for each other. I make more money than she does, but she also helps me with elements of that. The books are mine, but I share the income. I’m on her medical insurance. We’re really rather enmeshed in give and take.

So in a sense it’s like I’m the United States and Jennifer is Canada. I’m bigger and more powerful, but it’s not like I’m coming across the border with tanks, or even threatening to. Though I guess Canadians might see that arrangement differently.


So my demand, as the person in power, is that we have a good relationship and fairly and reasonably give and take with each other.

So from Jennifer’s perspective, that’s a good deal. Her main concern is that I’m not going to suddenly end the deal on her. It’s really not like I have to run some horrible dread game on her either, MMSL has been an education and she sees what’s out there. I also display loyalty and she’s involved increasingly behind the scenes with MMSL.

That being said…

When your partner is the person in power and being exploitive, your mission is to balance out the power, or take active control by trumping their power. Part of that process may very well involve refusal to give what they want in order to establish you are capable of such things, but it’s part of the process toward an end goal of a fairly balanced relationship.

Unfortunately, sometimes your partner is simply uninterested in any relationship with you unless they can endlessly siphon your time, money, effort and energy. Whereupon, you have to either leave or remain being their victim.

 If you’re the weaker partner in a relationship, you don’t have to worry about gaining power as long as the stronger partner is treating you fairly. I personally don’t want Jennifer feeling endless rolling stomach churning dread that I *might* leave her for example. That just gets me a freaked out wife for no gain to me.

That being said, if you’re the weaker partner… you are advised to not fall *that* far behind your partner.

If you want to read a whole lot more along those lines, The Mindful Attraction Plan book is the place to start.

Mindful Attraction Plan Review

Transparent 3Dcover for website ad

Natural Life Wife….

The book itself reads more like the life manual you *SHOULD* have gotten passed down to you verbally from your dad growing up. Unfortunately, many of us either didn’t have dads around or if we did, they lacked the know how and street smarts to explain all this to us:/ Maybe give your dad a copy himself- and one for your mom while you’re at it! It’s not that the advice is so outrageously revolutionary but that it’s so rare in this world of ours so lacking in common sense. You know you probably should have focused more on tangible job skills in college rather than just majoring for fun in a basically purely liberal arts field, but seeing it in black and white drives it home. You know you should get in shape and keep up a regular work out schedule but having it explained how that affects the other aspects of your life make it clear it’s a “must do” not just something that would be *nice* to do. You know you should get your finances in order but realizing that it’s limiting you in so many ways really makes it more urgent.

I’m still figuring out how exactly I want to set up my MAP beyond doing the basics of trying to get my act together and working out regularly so I have energy and health to better my life and marriage. I hate to say it but there’s a lot to work on:( However this plan is laid out pretty plainly- I can zero in on the worst areas first. I can say if this or well any of Athol’s writings had been around back in my teens, my life today would be much different. My 30?s, which are coming up in a few years, would be much less scary too! I’m hoping to see significant improvement by then.



Women Wear Money as a Display of High Value

@Angela:  What does everyone think about a woman letting her hair go gray at 50? I am toying with the idea. Can this be sexy, or am I completely ruining my Sex Rank? Can’t get any opinion from my husband, I don’t know whether he doesn’t care, or what.

Athol:  Whatever it is you chose, just make it look like money was involved in it’s production.
<insert many pics of doggystyle approved older chicks with gray hair>
@Maria:  One shouldn’t forget though, that grey hair as shown in the pics above, is NOT natural. Only very few women are so lucky to have shiny, all over grey hair; most of the time it’s mottled. So all that glamorous grey hair comes out of a bottle, too. It’s actually the most high-maintenance hair color after platinum blonde.

Athol: There’s obviously things like cut and design et al for hair and clothes, but the Display of High Value for women is to be effectively “wearing money”.

@Angela:  Thanks for all the input. I went to the hair salon this morning, the long, grey roots are gone, my hair is a nice rich auburn and I feel 15 years younger. I didn’t realize how much I was hating the gray experiment till it was over.

@x1134x:  Grey hair is not near the DLV that SHORT HAIR is.  At any age. Whatever you do, don’t cut it short.
Dye as long as you can do it and it still looks natural.  If you have wrinkled face skin from age, and a young, youthful head of hair, it looks off.

@Geekengineer:  Agree x eleventy bazillion.

A couple ladies at my office recently went from “actual upper-40s with long hair” to “actual upper-40s looking like a sad 60 year old grandma with no style” overnight by chopping it off to the poofball look. One had very grey hair that ended up getting colored black (looks terrible), the other had 1/2 grey that she colored dog-poop brown (looks… well, you know).

Athol:  So there you go. Keep your hair long. Keep it looking intentional. Keep it looking like some guy shells out cash in your direction.

That’s your Display of High Value for today.

Often the Hamster is Just Filibustering.

Athol:  I thought this comment on Age Gaps are a Relationship Stress warranted it’s own post. Pay careful attention to the fact that he clearly wants the relationship to work, but there’s this underlying structural effect making it harder going than it might otherwise be. Also she appears to have genuinely helped and invested in him, so that contribution acts as something he counts as a credit in her favor.

ToyBoy:  Well… that’s … ugh…

That’s hit a couple of things on the head for me, and I don’t like it.

I’ve historically been something of a manosphere lurker – but I’ve been away for a long time.  The last few days I’ve had a heavy hankering to come and re-motivate my self improvement side (I’ve gotten a little static recently) by digging through the archives, hence my commenting on such an old post.

I’m the younger man you described in that post: 7 year age gap, though I’m in my late 20s and she in her mid 30s.  We got together a couple of years ago, and at that point I was a bit of a psychological mess: quite depressed, effectively an alcoholic, little motivation, not very good with women (though improving as a result of the red pill)…

And my partner has been incredibly helpful and supportive, and has massively contributed towards me sorting myself out.  I’m much healthier – physically and mentally – and I’ve embarked on some major career moves (starting up my own company, going back into postgrad education etc).  I’m also finally sorting out some long-needed aesthetic improvements (eg, my teeth were ruined as a result of my depressions and drinking – I’m now in the midst of straightening, whitening, capping etc).

And recently the loyalty tests have started.  It’s in a jokey way, but several times in the last month or two she’s commented that she’s excited to see my ‘new smile’, but that she hopes I don’t then use it to leave her for a younger model.

And over this same period I’ve really noticed that my sex rank is higher than I thought it was when we got together.

NOW, here’s the very important thing: I love this woman, and I want us to remain together.  I really really do.  I have no intention of cheating on her.  I’ve recently moved in with her, and I love it.  We have a very healthy and happy relationship, and the sex life is pretty good (the only slight issue is that we’re both very busy, so tend to be a bit knackered at the end of the day, so sometimes we have to wait – *gasp* – a week or so).  I genuinely want to stay with her forever.

However, I worry about my biological imperative and the future.  My sex rank has improved over the last few years, definitely.  And I’m just now getting into the late 20s / early 30s peak that I read so much about.  And I’m improving my fitness.  And my career is taking off.  And I’m noticing more and more that I get positive attention from younger women, and that I like it.

And she is in her mid 30s, and struggles with her figure.  She’s not fat, but she’s not thin either, and once the weight is on it is unlikely to come off.  And I know that that is effecting my attraction to her already.

Example: last night I was at an event without her, where there were several early-to-mid 20s women, and it really struck me how strong their sex appeal was: the beauty of their faces, and the shape of their bodies, and how just by their existing I wanted to talk to them, to impress them, to have them like me…  and later in the evening, I’m sat in up bed with my partner, and I’m looking at a slightly less tight figure, and a slightly older face, and there’s a roll of fat, and the simple truth is that she doesn’t inspire the same automatic desire…

I’m not a fool.  I know that’s going to happen with ANYONE you have an LTR with, and how the male libido seeks variety.  BUT – I don’t like that I’m already feeling this, knowing it’s likely to get more pronounced over the next few years and beyond.

I’m not sure what the point of my comment is – probably just a chance for me to get some of that off my chest.  I find it an odd position to be in: I want this relationship to last – really, it’s bloody fantastic.  And the age gap doesn’t cause any problems that wouldn’t exist in another relationship, but perhaps it magnifies one.

A final thought: like I said, I wasn’t very good with women and probably underestimated my sex rank.  So I’ve not had much experience beyond drunk one night stands and crappy proto-relationships before this.  And there is a part of me – a part I am REALLY not proud of – that sort of resents the possibility of not properly experiencing being with some young women at some point.  Call it my inner PUA: there is a very real part of me that wants to sleep around with a variety of young women, and it’s never done it… that is the dangerous impulse.  That’s the one I have to keep down.  But it seems like more and more it’s waking up.    That worries me.  I don’t want this relationship to go sour.  And if it does I don’t want the reason to be me being horny.  But it’s always going to be there…


Athol: So TL:DR…  Body Agenda says leave, his Literate (Higher) Self says stay. The Hamster is filibustering.

I don’t mean that to sound like I’m making fun of him. This is an all too common issue I see. Truly every single time I see a younger man / older woman pairing come to the forum, I groan knowing how hard things will be to fix and hold together.


Cooking Game: Scrambled Eggs

Scrambled Eggs . Easy breakfast, quick to cook, uses leftovers, lots of protein, tasty. Let’s get started.

Here’s the formula….

Eggs + splash of milk + sprinkle of salt = The Glue Holding Everything Together

Meat + Vegetable + Cheese = The Flavor

The Glue + The Flavor = Scrambled Eggs

Here’s what makes it so quick, tasty and easy….

…use leftover meat and vegetables.

Seriously that’s it. Last night you grilled some beef and peppers and you have a leftovers of a strip of seasoned beef and peppers… that’s already full of flavor and already cooked, so all you have to do is chop it up and reheat it. It’s really just that simple. ANY meat, ANY vegetable. It’s all works just fine.

So chop your meat up and your vegetables and toss them in a pan on medium heat. Add a little butter to stop it sticking, but you’re really just warming it all up rather than anything else.

Once that’s in the pan warming, get a bowl and start cracking the eggs. I use 3 eggs per adult and 2 per kid as a rough guide. I add “a splash” of milk which I guess comes to about a 1/4 cup of milk for 7-8 eggs. Sprinkle some salt on the eggs, take a fork and mix them for about 10-15 seconds tops. Seriously, just mix them and stop, you don’t have to try and frappe the damn things. Quickly mix and pour it over the top of the meat and vegetables in the pan.

Medium heat, maybe a squeeze more.

You’re going to occasionally stir the eggs and reshuffle them in the pan. The goal here is to try and keep them moist and fluffy… working toward the goal where the entire pan of eggs comes up to temperature at the same time, rather than cooking half of them on the bottom of the pan and having runny eggs on top. It’s kinda hard to pull off exactly, but good enough is good enough.

Right before you think the eggs are done. I mean right before. That’s when you add the cheese and not before. What you want is scrambled eggs + melted cheese nestled within the scrambled eggs. If you add the cheese early though, the eggs and the cheese fused together in something that tastes… er… reasonable, but the texture is horrible.

Adding the cheese right at the end works though, don’t even worry if it’s not melted in the pan, as you pull it all off the heat and start serving it up, the heat from the eggs will melt the cheese… and the cool cheese help will stop the eggs from overcooking further. Am I amazing or what?

Got all that?


Here’s the combination that will peel panties off.

Bacon + Fresh Baby Spinach + Feta Cheese

Bacon = The worlds most perfect food. Need I say more? Bacon always works and if it doesn’t, dump her and find a woman it will work on.

Fresh Baby Spinach = This is an uncooked vegetable, so we have to handle this one a little differently. Just add them with the eggs and cook them together. The leaves will stay “big” until they are completely cooked, when they shrink and wrinkle up. The good news is that eggs and baby spinach will complete cooking at pretty much exactly the same time.

Feta Cheese = This is the perfect scrambled egg cheese. It’s strongly flavored, comes already kibbled into small pieces and tends to stay intact in the scrambled eggs. So you get a small chunk of identifiable tasty cheese. It’s the MILF of cheeses.


When you get good at routine scrambled eggs… it scales up in size pretty well. Meaning it’s possible to switch out to a large casserole dish / big pot, and do two or three dozen eggs at a time for a big group of people. Just use more meat and more vegetables of course. It’s the slow warming up to temperature that’s the trick and having the entire dish suddenly cook through at once.

You can do this. Start small. Go bigger. Anyone can cook.