Athol Kay on the Art of Charm Podcast

Check out me on The Art of Charm podcast #239 with Jordan Harbinger. you’ll learn….

Why Alpha and Beta are different traits.

Why Beta doesn’t count unless you’re Alpha.

Why the Three Love Systems are important.

Why I worry about a great relationship dropping down into just a good relationship, rather than terribly relationship moving up to being just a bad relationship.

Why you have to stop whining.

Why you have to know the difference between a Fitness Test and a Loyalty Test.

Why you have to take “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” really, really seriously.

Why you have to lead in your relationship and how to do it so she doesn’t think you’re being a jerk about it.


Was a fun show to do. Let me know what you think about it!


  1. says

    Nice podcast, though it’s strange to actually hear your voice instead of reading it. In my mind, you had this uber-alpha barry white vibe going. Still, very nice to digest your experience in another form.

    I was slightly miffed with the way the site (And the sales reps there) try to sell their products. They seem to be targetting people whom are not currently in a relationship but want to be better at seduction and game. It made me feel old and horribly monogamous and stable. Most readers on your blog probably aren’t their normal clientéle.

    But interesting nonetheless, I’ll give some of their podcasts a chance and I’m looking forward to more podcast-type things from I like them.

  2. Chris Murphy says

    I would for sure subscribe to a regular podcast. It was nice to listen to it in the car. Make this happen! Of course I am speaking of you just doing one on your own on different topics.

  3. says

    Hey Zalazny,

    Thanks for the comment. The site is being re-done, because yes, it’s totally cheese ball and dated at the moment. The Art of Charm is about the whole man, not about ‘game/seduction’, so we’re focusing on that stuff a lot more. The reps on the site do a great job of helping people find content, and I’m sure you’d have found them very helpful if you were looking for something specific.

    You have my apologies that a customer service box on a website made you feel old and boring, and I’m glad you enjoyed the show. ;)

  4. dalef says

    Great podcast. Did want to say that when betas try hard and don’t get a response, often they don’t get resentful, but don’t know what to do.

  5. Kickboxer Girl says

    What, did someone say the sexiest man on the internet has a podcast, you mean I get to hear his voice?!!!

    Sorry Jennifer, I know your fellow is loyal but that comment gave me a well deserved dopamine hit (stirring innocent trouble from across the ocean)

    I would just like to say thanks to you both (Jennifer for supporting Athol in his writing). I unintentionally used dread /with a bit of reality (thanks to your recent post) and my man who has been ignoring me for years kicked into gear, he became very protective when he saw me chatting (innocently) to a male colleague. I have had his attention for the first time in years and I’m thanking you from the bottom of my heart. Fingers crossed it lasts. I didn’t realise I had to make him feel jealous to desire me. It appears men like social proof too.

  6. Kickboxer Girl says

    HOT HOT HOT!!! But the guy interviewing you was so annoying, I couldn’t bare it. Can I get a transcript please?

    Your word is gospel to me!

  7. Phantom says

    Would also appreciate a transcript, if possible. Listening to things instead of reading drives me up the wall.

  8. says

    Hey Kickboxer Girl -what was so annoying about the interview?

    I’d love to know. Been doing a show for seven years and never received that feedback. Always looking to improve, provided you’re not just complaining for the sake of doing so. Ahem. ;)

  9. Kickboxer Girl says

    I’m so sorry Jordan that you heard my opinion. I would have kept my mouth closed had I known you’d read my comments.

    I found your voice to be a little bit whiney and feminine. I like deep DJ voices because masculinity drives me wild (could explain why my name is Kickboxer Girl – I love Kickboxers, they are so strong and powerful).

    I was also frustrated waiting for the points to be made (interviews seem to drag on for me). I could have extracted the information I was seeking much faster had I read it, so perhaps I was frustrated by my impatience rather than your voice. Projecting it onto you maybe?

    I have done some voice over work, some IVR work, narrated books myself etc (for free) and most men love my feminine voice. I think its because of the polarity from their own voices? I know ultra masculine voices are what us woman love listening to. Google Richard Mercer, an Australian DJ, and you’ll understand the point I’m trying to make.

  10. says

    Haha wow that’s a new one! I’ve never heard that one before. Honestly, I think you’ve just made my day, especially given the fact that I JUST received another email about how there’s too much bass in my recording and my voice sounds too low :)

    Also, hate to burst your bubble, most those DJ voices -it’s all pre-amp baby. ;)


  11. Kickboxer Girl says

    You’ve burst by bubble indeed! I thought Mercer had that voice and I imagined that he would whisper in a very deep voice sweet nothings in his wife’s ear. Yes you’ve ruined my fantasy but I deserved it for being so mean.

  12. says

    Absolutely loved the podcast. Thank ya’ll so much.

    My husband much prefers audio info to reading, and he got a lot out of the podcast as well.

    Hearing your voices made it so much more personal and real. Great job, guys!

  13. Peregrine John says

    Well… sometimes it’s pre-amp. Sometimes not so much. Just so’s you know.

  14. I'm a man says

    I really enjoyed the podcast, listened to it 2x. The 3 love systems really define Alpha/beta nicely!

    Jordan – I have single minor item i noticed about how you guys conducted the interview. I get how you guys have a vibe and relate your own experiences and found it entertaining. I sent my 23yr old son a link to your site.

    The topic of shit tests came up and you guys started relating your own experiences. Athol attempted to clarify the importance of defining the shit test type before responding to the women, but he couldn’t get a word in. This was a lost opportunity for your listeners but like i said only a minor point. Frankly i think shit tests would make a great show in itself. Athol is a shit test ninja. I’ve been married for 20+ years and shit test free for about 2+ years. I think my wife is scared to shit test me.

  15. AOC Alum says

    Athol, Great podcast. Found you through the cross-post to AOC. Bought your book and loving it. Would love to hear more podcasts from you. Hope you’ll make it a regular thing. Jordan will attest to the efficacy of a regular podcast to his paid consulting work; I think it would work for you, too!

  16. ThomasB says

    In the interview, Athol mentioned some kind of point sheet of +1’s and -1’s men do, and it was supposed to be in the show notes, but I can’t find it. Was Athol speaking metaphorically, or can somebody direct me to it?

    I enjoyed the interview.

  17. says

    I know I’m late to comment but I listened to this and thought it was really strong – great review of the basic MMSL fundamentals without talking down to the audience or throwing around a lot of jargon.

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