Options Are Limited When Dealing With Domestic Violence

Question on Violence, Deep Emotion and Rational Talk.

Tyler:  An earlier commenter touched on this, but I want to expand it into a real question: how does a man deal with a woman using the Violence strategy? Outside Force (aka cops) isn’t as easily used by a man as by a woman:

1. As you say, female violence is more frequent/less intense, thus less likely to leave evidence. A solution to this would be in-home surveillance, but that also is a bit drastic (and perhaps costly).

2. In absence of incontrovertible evidence, it becomes he said/she said, allowing the woman to turn the Outside Force against the man, such as with a false accusation. This presumes a bias in law enforcement toward believing the female account, and I do believe such a bias exists.

Much respect for your work.

Athol: In the case of very minor incidents of violence, you have to see that as a testing the waters event. I’m talking about that first thing where they cross the line into the “that was a bit much” category. That you have to immediately call out as being unacceptable and whatever it was they wanted from that incident, you ensure they don’t get it.

So… Jennifer slaps me on the forearm in response to me saying something teasing to her… that’s not a problem. (I actually kind of enjoy it when she does that.)

But… Jennifer slaps me on the face, saying “Go get the #$%^ing groceries from the car!”… well that’s crossing the line. That I’d very firmly verbally bump back on, and the groceries would rot inside her car before I’d do anything about them. The message being a very clear “The Violence Strategy will not get you what you want” statement.

And for the record, no, there’s no hitting at the Kay Place. We do have periodic drama like every couple does, but we’re both major introverts so… huh… I guess we do self-imposed Time Outs in a double withdrawal strategy. Anyway, I digress…

Unfortunately though, most people don’t do that for the first incident of crossing the line, so it continues. In the case of continuing violence, the options are rather limited, unpleasant and somewhat depressing.

If someone is prepared to be violent in a relationship, they will continue to be violent in the relationship because it is a winning strategy to get what they want from you. Yes it’s wrong, but it does work, so they use it. It’s like the bullies as school shaking you down for your lunch money. They will keep hitting you, and you will keep handing over your lunch money until something breaks the cycle. The bully however will not one day have an epiphany that making you their personal piñata is wrong, because no one gives up a winning strategy.

So you have to accept that once someone starts being willing to use Violence against you, it will continue until something breaks the cycle.

There are four possible outcomes…

(1) You do nothing, she keeps smacking you when you’re insolent. You learn to be whatever she decides is “good” and figure out ways to apologize for things that are her fault, lose all sense of a personal identity, clean up the messes she makes and generally turn yourself into a human shield if she ever looks sideways at the children.

(2) You respond with greater Violence and hit her back harder than she hits you. Well… this might work briefly, but honestly the more predictable outcome is simply an escalation of both of you playing the Violence strategy toward the full colonoscopy of emergency services and interventions. There’s not really a winner here.

(3) You quit the relationship. Actually this may not be a bad option. If there are no kids involved and no particular reason to stay, you really may as well bail on someone who displays this level of poor judgment. I’m betting she’s not exactly a peach in the other areas of her life either.

(4) You get Outside Force involved. This is the only possible route if you want to try and address the situation and also keep the relationship intact. The trick here is that you have to make this as defensively clear that you are not the abuser as you can. Video or audio of her acting violent and/or verbally aggressive, while you are clearly not doing anything other than defensively trying to block and dodge may be helpful. If you are injured and she isn’t, head to the Emergency Room and say what happened, which will then trigger a police visit to follow up on your defensive injuries. Most likely though, the best way forward is simply making a police report by calling the non-emergency number for your local police department. I have seen a number of times that simply making a police report goes a long way to stopping violence happening.

In addition, you can also make calls to Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men and Women and the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

My feeling is that that if you’re a man worried about being automatically framed as the abuser when you are the one being abused, you’re probably going to have to end up in some contact with the authorities at some point whether you like it or not. So you’re probably better off making an early approach to reporting, using the system of reporting that is in place and for lack of a better term… playing the role of the victim.

What is unhelpful is hedging your bets because of your fear you’ll get painted as the abuser, and letting things escalate further and further. That’s when you have the situations where things get completely out of hand, you’re forced to physically defend yourself more than blocking and dodging and when the police arrive on scene they find a confusing and complicated situation to make decisions about. That’s when defaulting to the idea that the larger male was the aggressor comes into play and statistically speaking, once the incidents are at the level requiring police invention, that’s a good bet for them to make.

So yeah. Options are limited and none of them are any fun to choose.

But once someone can hit you and get away with it, they don’t stop hitting you.

Comments

  1. Those that have inflicted domestic violence on me have believed what they were doing was acceptable, both legally and ethically. In one case citing a government campaign along with the definition of domestic abuse was the first stepping stone to extinguishing the behaviour. Perhaps a post on why coercion and violence are so wrong and counter productive would be helpful? Thanks C:-)

  2. Wayne Earl says:

    athol,

    I had videotaped evidence of my ex-wife assulting me pn several occasions, as well as video taped evidence of her sick behavior while I was asleep that would have landed any man a felony rape charge. As my background includes computer security, I maintained proper chain of custody of all of this, such that the evidence would be admissible in a court of law. It was open and shut, no room for wiggle.

    Andthe DA refused to even review the evidence, because my wife had a vagina, and I did not.

    she struck me when i was ill at 3 months into our marriage, which was the last time the two of us were ever alone together. i threw her out of my life and changed the locks at 6 months. that was three years ago, i am still paying alimony. Thanks Gods we had no children, and I could afford the excellent attourney that I did get.

    this is in the san francisco bay area. I am a well known engineer and businessman. I believed in Justice. i believed in honor. Now all I want is to get beyond this without the total loss of my belief in humanity.

    my advise: first sign of violence, GET OUT. GET OuT now, it is OVER. Your well intentioned advise here will cost sanity and lives. Men, there is NOTHING to protect you. you will doubt your own sanity. you will…..just get out now while you can.

  3. Wayne Earl says:

    athol,

    by the way – you, and the manosphere, is why i am still somewhat sane. When trying to understand my ex behavior, i was googling, and encountered AVFM, which led me to discover borderline personality disorder, which described my ex perfectly. Soon after, i discovered the manosphere, and found i wasnt alone. that i wasnt going crazy. that there was hope.

    by learning the truth, i began to see it wasnt completely personal. i also began to understand how my own behavior contributed to the dynamic. saying my wife is a cunt feels good, but does nothing constructive. asking myself, “why am i attracted to cunts?”….the very painful start of healing.

    I dont know if i have anything of value to offer, but i am willing to discuss my experiences further with any man willing to reach out. you are not alone.

  4. Perhaps what needs to happen is that a private citizens case be prosecuted against a female who attacks a male partner – to create a precedent. Obviously the cost would be beyond the average person and most probably the victim, but if justice-minded lawyers worked pro bono and justice-minded members of the public raised funds (perhaps crowd funding?) then it could be accomplished. The publicity generated alone would promote the rights of all people to live without fear of violence. I’d contribute to a fighting fund!

    Nevertheless, as Wayne suggests, it’s far better to take control ourselves (e.g. of our choices) than to rely on the goodness of other people or indeed the justice system.

  5. Milf-in-Training says:

    I’m a woman who divorced an abusive man … and learned a lot about the system. Though having a vagina helped me, there are things you can do regardless.

    Every police department has an Officer who handles DV. Some places call him the Family Officer, or the Domestic Officer. I call ours wonderful.

    If you are an abuse victim, or wonder if you are, call the non-emergency police number and make an appointment with the Family Officer. Put on your best Beta hat (all on-duty police are more Alpha than you), explain the situation calmly, and state that you’re worried about what will happen if 1) the situation gets worse, 2) she claims you are the abuser. Listen carefully to the answer. If the officer suggests you do something, do it. If they say something would be an option … do it. I wish I knew these when my officer said “you seem to have grounds to gt a restraining order.”

    Bu going to the police first, and with a concerned attitude (not angry!), you start the records going in your favor. Then, if the police are called to your house, they know you asked for advice. Abusers don’t ask because they “know” they’re right.

  6. Just Saying says:

    Women have very little strength when it comes to their upper body. The few times women have raised a hand to me, I’ve blocked it – that hurts her arm, then grabbed her hands until she apologizes and does something nice for me. Sure I could punish her, or hurt her – but really, women are like small children when it comes to force – would you beat a child? No, you punish her to let her know that such behavior is unacceptable, but treating her like you would treat a child, is pretty much the proper response when it comes to women.

  7. There are likely other sources of help, but this is one with which I am comfortable… May I request further information on non-violent forms of abuse, manipulation and coercion? I read these posts and comments and they make my gut drop out, but it is always… so close but not that…

    I know you can’t be asked to help every person, or give advice for every variation, but, Athol, those of us whom you help and have helped trust your advice. Moreso, your judgement. And I have stopped trusting mine. How much is hamster? How much is me feeling like a special snowflake? And how much is real?

    How do I know?

  8. Option 5 is a religious conversion, though that’s out of your control. Some people are victims of addiction, they don’t want to be the way they are.

  9. Ah yes, BSC women and they’re last ditch attempts to turn the negotiation tables.
    In university I lived with such a girl. She had many unresolved deep seated emotional issues that could from time to time get out of hand. she was quick to play the “I’ll call the cops and tell them you beat me” card when arguments got a little mad for her. To be clear, I never raised a hand to her or was abusive at all. She simply needed drama in her life and had some serious daddy issues. she needed and wanted to be put in her place, but neither of us could understand that.
    So yes she would hit me, and I would not hit her back. Yes she tried some other BSC ways to harm me, I would not reciprocate. and yes when she finally went bananas one day and threatened to call the cops, I did it for her and asked them to come and tend to our situation for her own good.
    Thankfully the cops were actually pretty reasonable. They still asked ME to leave as you know, it’s easier for a man to deal with being homeless then a woman, but whatever. I was simply happy to not have anything hanging over my head or being accused of anything.
    When the cops did arrive, I was calm, reasonable, measured in my responses and honest. They of course did not ask if I wanted to press charges, seems they only ask girls that.
    In future fights when she got all riled up and started throwing shit and making threats I would simply say “do you want to call the police to discuss this or shall I?”. There would be a temporary lull in the action.
    Eventually we went our separate ways.
    Post script: she undoubtedly saw this as a super Beta strategy and was revulsed by it and eventually went back to her cheating with Alpha ways as a result. in short, she wanted to be handled in a rough way. It turned her on beyond a shadow of a doubt, as learned in other circumstances.
    Unfortunately the law abiding, unwitting Alpha is stuck in a catch 22. If she likes it mad and crazy and things get rough and it’s consensual. That’s fine. But if she changes her mind for but a moment, the Alpha is in deep trouble as she can bring the full weight of the law down on his head. Given that BSC is known by its unpredictability, if a man values his sanity and his freedom he MUST come down on the side of prudence every time and NEVER hit a woman and be prepared to call the higher authorities if there is any hope of getting the behaviour settled down. Sadly however it runs contrary to what her biology and psychology was asking for, which was a dopamine and booze fuelled fight followed by mad hot make up money sex.

  10. Anon
    Try posting your problem on the Forum, either in the Intorductions or 991. Post the triage as well.

  11. slingerland says:

    Read this carefully. I am a mental health professional with the highest possible education in my field. I have attracted a few violent women in the past ranging from moderate stalking to workplace harassment on up to slapping, slashing tires and threats of death. I have taken these women to court- bringing pages and pages of documents- photos of cut tires, hundreds of threatening emails and text messages, letters from witnesses. You know what happened? The judge did not look at the information or asked me to prove it. I have gone to cops ahead of time before the violence happened- asking for advice. They told me to tell her to stop. Really sir? Thank you sir. Gosh I never thought of that sir. In every single instance that any man I know of including me has fought back- not retaliated, not taking revenge, I mean just removing myself from a headlock, pushing away flailing fists, removing a thrashing, biting and punching female from my car, the result was the same. The man was arrested and charged with at least two charges and at least one of them being a violent felony (kidnapping, false imprisonment, aggravated stalking). The legal costs alone have ranged from $20K to $100,000 and the personal loss of business, lost income, reputation were up to 10x that amount. As for me, I choose the option to run away as soon as any evidence of a violent nature comes up.

  12. What happens when there is no violence but the woman claims there is? You can read my story on my blog or a story like this: http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2014/02/sex-addiction-hamster-said-masculine.html

    She insists what I did was assault even though I didn’t touch her and just stood by the door while she tried to leave/tried to reason with her. That’s a big mistake I know, women cannot be reasoned with when they are angry typically. Any thoughts would be much appreciated. Thank you!

  13. This leadership quota etc is bs. Who are you? I own 2 companies, employ 30+ and would be considered a leader to most. I must say that the default crap can be straight up rejected too, no comment for that? how about when you try leading and she wants that, but you have to lead “her way”, how does that work? When I take a strong approach she tells me I’m mean, this leads to less sex. I’m talking about something as simple as, “no our son can go to his friends after his homework and chores are done.” Mean? that’s not even discipline, it’s common sense approach to parenting.

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