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Your Wife’s AAAAAF Report Card (The “F” is for Sex)

October 20, 2013 By 20 Comments

I keep coming across this thing where a husband will positively gush about his wife. She’s an amazing cook, looks great, is kind and sweet tempered, keeps an excellent house, fabulous mom to the kids and on and on and on. Then the sad face comes… and he mentions that there’s hardly any sex. The husband always looks depressed and defeated because she’s far too good to leave but he never gets what he really wants from the relationship. There may well be delicious pie and a nice home, but it feels like he stumbled into a trap nevertheless.

For a long time I’ve been seeing that as a form of compensation on the wife’s part. She doesn’t want the sex for whatever reason it is, so she becomes like a kid coming home with a school report card with five A’s and one F. As a parent you kinda have to look at the report card and think… Well she did flunk math… but everything else is amazing, so I don’t think I can really be too much of a hard ass about it.

Except when it’s a marriage and she’s flunking sex, it really is way more aggravating than your kid flunking math.

“In fact”, I usually say, “you’d probably much rather have the house be a bit messy, have her dress down a little, have a little more noise from the kids and less perfection with the money, just as long as you got some more regular sex. Instead of an AAAAAF report card from her, you’d rather see her turn in a BBBBBB report card.” 

That’s the husband’s cue to scream in relief that someone finally understands his situation. Up until this point, complaints about his wife to anyone else typically gets looks of confusion and polite questioning of the husband’s sanity. The wife is after all perfect, because the AAAAA part of the report card is what everyone else sees and only the husband has to lie awake at night with a raging hard-on silently cursing the cruel F that fate has dealt him.

So she’s compensating for her sexual disinterest by maxing out everything else. It’s a great strategy for keeping him on the hook.

But…

There’s another angle here too.

As much as she is compensating for her weakest area, she’s also mirroring her husband.

Pretty much all the AAAAAF wives have AAAAAF husbands.

These guys are really great. Hard working, good jobs, pleasant, agreeable, great with the kids, helps around the house, yada yada yada. But they all have a giant lack of attractiveness somehow.

Maybe it’s their weight. Maybe it’s the cluelessness about how to instigate and flirt. Maybe they just fold up like wet napkins any time she challenges them. Maybe they fail to do anything when other guys blatantly hit on the wife in front of them. Whatever it is, it all sums out to some huge defect in being attractive and pulling her sexual interest.

Meanwhile, the wife probably has her internal hamster treading water coming up with reasons to be happy in her marriage despite the bed death. He’s such a great guy, any woman would be happy with him… just… ugh. This would all be simpler if he just cheated so I had a reason to divorce him.

So…

Whatever it is that’s causing the F in your sex life, you have to find it and root it out. Helping you in that process are the books, the forum and the 1:1 coaching.

So get to it. Class is back in session.

Filed Under: Alpha and Beta Male Traits, Cheating and Infidelity, Girl Game and Sexy Wives, How To Choose A Wife, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Nice Guys and Betaization, Sexual Health Issues, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

Does The End Justify The Means?

June 28, 2013 By 22 Comments

I’m often criticized by Christians as being either “too quick” to suggest divorce, or even “pro-divorce”.  Usually it’s not a complete slamming of me/MMSL, more of an element that makes it’s way into my final grade so to speak. MMSL is amazing and wonderful and deserves an A, but the whole willingness to divorce thing drops me to a B.

I get it. I totally understand that point of view. If you have a Christian world view, that makes sense to me that you think that way. The trouble is though, sometimes a completely genuine divorce threat works like nothing else does to unstick a stagnant marriage.

So the difficulty is that it can work, but is wrong to use. Awkward.

So let’s get real about this shall we.

There’s not too much question in my mind that a genuine divorce threat is a non-sanctioned Christian tool. I agree that you’re coming over to the dark side to try this tactic. That being said, I *very* rarely jump to an instant divorce suggestion and those cases where I do are truly horrible. The entire Phases of the MAP is designed to actually slow down the rush to judgment and get everything as good as they can be, before ever getting to a true divorce ultimatum. It’s a true last resort. Even then, it’s a true ultimatum – a choice – with a positive option for the other spouse to choose. All they have to do is act right.

It’s not simply a random nuke tossed out. It’s something that offers a clear and positive resolution if your spouse is willing to take it. So honestly I get a little ticked at being framed as “pro-divorce” or slap happy on recommending it.

So does the end justify the means?

Yes. Yes it does. If that means you’re in a happy marriage as a result, absolutely it does.

It all just needs to be controlled, managed and staged as best it can for minimal risk and maximum possible gain. If it all works out for the best, I think you’ll be able to live with it. But I do get that it’s stressful and stomach churning to think about.

You know what the REAL risk is though? One day something in your marriage is just going to get so bad, you’re going to snap anyway.

I’d rather see you get help before that happens. If you’ve tried everything else and it hasn’t worked, come see me.

Filed Under: Captain and First Officer, Cheating and Infidelity, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Nice Guys and Betaization, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

MMSL is the Manosphere Root Beer Part Two

June 27, 2013 By 25 Comments

Comment on Why Relationship Momentum Matters. As you read, watch everything play out exactly as you would expect… assuming the genders were reversed.

Audrey:  I recently ‘guarded’ my husband from a friend in the midst of going through a divorce. I’ve known her for years because our kids are friends. My husband casually mentioned that he was sending her some research on an item she was buying. I asked why, and he said that she’d emailed to ask him for help making a selection.

Pardon me? She approached HIM and not ME? Me, I’d have nicely told her to research it herself (lots of online info, library has Consumers Report, etc.). My life is busy enough. I don’t do homework for those who should be able to help themselves. I had to point out to him that she was playing the damsel in distress and that he was buying it. He was completely taken aback and pointed out that he was just trying to help as he would anyone. I told him that I knew there was nothing wrong with what HE did, but would he mind her estranged hubby calling me up and asking me to come over and help him with something I’m better at, such as picking paint colours or furniture for his new digs? He paused. And then the lights went on and he saw what I was seeing.

I asked if he thought this woman with a master’s degree was really incapable of reviewing ratings on her own, or did he think it served her purposes better to play the victim and have other men do things for her. After all, other women’s husbands are safe since they can’t even expect a ‘perk’ for doing it. She just touches their arms, flatters them by saying how good they are at these things and how much she appreciates the help. You know, the stuff that many wives forget to do since busy spouses tend to take each other for granted over the years.

He went from thinking I was nuts to being irked about potentially being played. I think it’s safe to assume that she won’t be getting any more help from MY man. Besides, Miss I’m So Lost Since Hubby Left has three strapping sons at home, all well over six feet. If she really needs a man to do things, she needs to tap one of the walking appetites that lives with her.

What amused me the most was how THRILLED my husband was to have me ‘guard’ him. Seriously, he was all puffed up about it. I earned big points there and I wasn’t even trying to. LOL

Athol:  Audrey’s completely correct response reads exactly like we teach a husband to do when someone starts honing in on their wife. There needs to be a word for female cockblocking.

Anyway…

I realize probably a minority of my readers and certainly a decent number of other manosphere types think I’ve lost my mind and/or sold out with the new book. Sure it’s a softer approach, but the truth is I see the exact same issues playing out over and over in both sexes. 90% of the wives on the MMSL forum are the female version of Betaized Nice Guys. Too patient, too submissive, too frightened to stand up for themselves, no inner game, endlessly orbiting and sexually frustrated.

The overwhelming majority of my advice applies just as well to women as it does to men.

Get to the gym, get in shape. Dress well. Don’t allow yourself to be mistreated or taken advantage of. Be kind and affectionate, but only if you’re being treated with basic respect. Get good at something. Ask for the sex you what. Be loyal, but also be prepared to walk if the relationship is a disaster. Play up your sexuality and gender. Instigate, isolate, escalate.

I won’t lie and say the extra money isn’t nice and that the book isn’t more commercial. Of course I wanted to make money and sell more books. Duh.

But we gotta make Red Pill women, or it’s going to get very lonely for all the Red Pill men the manosphere is making.

This isn’t anything new. I wrote Why MMSL Is The Manosphere’s Root Beer nearly two years ago. I’m playing a long game here.

When a Blue Pill Nice Guy with a serious relationship problem comes stumbling into the Manosphere looking for answers, he comes with a pro-female mindset. After coming across variants of “All women are devious whores!” a few dozen times – something possible in the comments of a single post on some blogs – he can easily become repulsed and move on in his search for truth. Then we call him a Mangina for good measure. We do this because insults make other people listen better and consider our viewpoint.

Likewise, sympathetic women reading the same venom quickly become unsympathetic women. At some point we’re going to want some things to go to a vote and there are more women than men that can vote. Therefore we need the support of women to at least some degree.

So I see my role in the Manosphere as a diplomatic outpost. Some people start here and then explore the rest of the Manosphere. Some people start elsewhere in the Manosphere and get directed here after being jilted by what they first discover. Me being happily married, having a great sex life and generally being a quirky Vulcan makes MMSL taste like… root beer.

So watch the video, it’s a classic.

If other bloggers want review copies, let me know where to send them.

Transparent 3Dcover for website ad

Filed Under: Cheating and Infidelity, Girl Game and Sexy Wives, How To Choose A Wife, Humor and Everything Else, Nice Guys and Betaization, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

Why Relationship Momentum Matters

June 26, 2013 By 9 Comments

Okay…. lets assume your relationship is basically good, but you’ve made a misstep with a mate guarding fail. You know it, she knows it. You know she knows it and she knows, you know it. And… well… let’s just say it’s obvious.

And no sex happened, clothes all stayed on, it’s just one of the those things where “nothing happened”, but your stomach feels like you swallowed four lemons and a giant bag of Pop Rocks. That’s your sign that mate guarding should have happened.

So nothing happened, but you still have to address it somehow though. You can’t simply let it just slide.

Here’s the big picture concern.

Right now your relationship is GOOD. Let’s say that you’re at the 90 mark out of 100. A really good relationship.

But relationships also have momentum. What’s happening now is that a small negative event has happened. You failed to mate guard, some dude got isolated face time with her, or you stood around doing nothing while he hit on her in front of you.

As a result your relationship dropped from a 90 to 87. Which is still a GOOD relationship. But the momentum has started DOWN.

If this situation keeps going on unchecked, you’re going to get a slow but stead string of small negative events, -1, -2, -1, -2, -1, -3…. yada yada yada. There’s another isolation event with Mr. Studly, there’s a mildly naughty text, there’s playful looking over, come out to the club…. yada yada yada.

Then one day a few months down the line, your relationship is DOWN to a 47 and Mr.Studly has worked himself UP to a 54. Then things start getting really awkward.

Would your wife cheat on you today? NO. No way in hell. Because your relationship is GOOD. But left unchecked, your relationship will continue it’s downward momentum.

So it sounds like I’m over reacting here, but I take downward relationship momentum *very* seriously. In fact I’d almost be more comfortable learning your relationship was at 20 and heading up to 25, rather than 90 dropping to 87. The relationship momentum will tend to hold in both cases.

If it all gets nipped in the bud *now*, you’ll save each other an amazing degree of pain and grief.

So even in a GOOD relationship, with a GOOD wife, you still have to pay attention and be willing to step in and say something when a line is crossed. Either to her, or him, or both. That’s how your relationship stays GOOD.

And of course the same applies the other way around…

Filed Under: Captain and First Officer, Cheating and Infidelity, Girl Game and Sexy Wives, Instigate Isolate and Escalate, Nice Guys and Betaization

Explaining The “In Her Or On Her” Rule

June 20, 2013 By 14 Comments

Forum issue…. spent a long time triaging this case and everything went back to the husband having a porn/Internet addiction. As in we figured out the exact month everything started falling apart being when they first had cable Internet installed. Literally a bright motivated guy one month and starting to flunk out of college the next. Then over a decade of unemployment and underemployment after that. Her carrying about 80% of the income load while he stayed home and jerked off to porn. Long story short, I gave her a full and complete triage experience, she unleashed ”Option A or B” on him, he went for Option A.

Which brings us to this post. One of my suggestions that was part of Option A was to adopt the “In her or on her” rule. Meaning where his semen ends up. i.e. no jerking off to porn, if he’s having an orgasm, it’s with her in some way shape or form. Don’t care where he comes, just as long as it’s with her.

Then comes the hamstring questions. What if she’s not available, or doesn’t want to? Or other reason to get around the rule. Squeaky squeak squeakum.

My response…

(1) He’s the addict, so anything he says isn’t reasonable or valid related to the addiction.

(2) He’s allowing himself to have his brain be rewired to experience her as the outlet for his sexuality.

(3) Given long enough (months) doing (2) will make his brain eroticize her to him. Just like he’s conditioned himself to particular porn to be a turn-on, now he’s conditioning himself to be turned-on by her. Yes that’s “artificial”, but it will feel completely real when it’s done.

(4) Like any form of hunger, the longer it goes between feedings, the greater his desire to be fed. So if she is unavailable (work) or unwilling (I expect somewhat rarely), all that does is make him more interested in her and more attracted to her. If he routinely masturbates without her, then he basically messes up the entire program. The orgasming without her is the entire problem.

(5) What he’ll come to learn is that 99% of eroticism lies in the feeling of being turned-on. After he orgasms, it’s over. It seems very counter intuitive I know, but he’ll actually find a more satisfying sexual experience on the other side of this process. It’s really not robbing him of anything.

(6) Without the endless dopamine chasing of the porn/Internet addiction, he’ll find greater personal focus in his life as a whole. He’ll think better. Perform better. This is a real addiction he’s been facing and it’s terribly draining on him.

(7) Monogamy isn’t exactly easy. It’s not for me. I’m a higher desire person than Jennifer, but it’s the experience of being turned-on that’s the most enjoyable thing. By a conscious focus limiting myself to her, it actually is sexually frustrating in a positive sense. Much of Oneitis is simply a biological response to sexual frustration coupled with an emotional focus on a single woman. As long as she is a basically good wife, it’s pretty freaking enjoyable.

Or in other words, the “in you or on you” rule may seem like a gimmick, and to an extent it is. But it’s also going to work to make him find her more sexually attractive and help him fall in love with her again.

And even if the process to make that happen is artificial, the feelings he’ll experience as a result of it will be real.

The caveat to all this being that she’s actually into him. She’s been a total Nice Girl slaving away supporting him and being sexually cut off by him. She wants to lay him like tile.

Jennifer:  This can also be a lot of fun for her. We don’t often skip nights but the positive change in Athol’s attention toward me is noticeable the longer it goes since the last time we had sex. It’s nice to be the focus of that level of desire. Now if a girl was mildly evil…

Filed Under: Cheating and Infidelity, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Nice Guys and Betaization, Sexual Health Issues, Sexy Moves

Framing the Official Relationship History

June 7, 2013 By 17 Comments

The half of the couple who is in charge, is the one who gets to take the official meeting minutes of the relationship. As long as the relationship is going well, this isn’t a concern because the official meeting minutes reflect the happy harmony of the relationship.

But on the rare occasions the relationship has some minor points of interpersonal discussion, requiring greater thought as to the structural situations in which the happy couple periodically finds itself at sub-optimal levels of unification on a temporary issue, the official meeting minutes of the relationship, become an important resource to clarify the memories of prior statements of mutual agreement, to the appropriate course of action for exactly the circumstances in which discussion wishes to take place and as the matter has already been settled before the present point of time, this entire debate amounts to a potentially offensive reopening of a closed matter, as the expectation remains that talks made in good faith will be honored and not discarded on a whim, especially when additional plans have already been made with outside parties and costs borne predicated on the original agreement, thus it remains not only a reasonable expectation that the plans of action unfolds as mutually intended and agreed upon, it is in fact going to be damaging to attempt to not proceed and therefore is doubly justified as the only possible thing to do at present.

Or perhaps put more plainly…

“We’ve already talked about this. You agreed that I could have a weekend away with the girls, you can’t change your mind on me now, I’ve already got plane tickets and booked the hotel.”

“I didn’t think you were going to Vegas though, you said it was the beach house.”

“What? No! You agreed that I could have a weekend away with the girls. The beach house was only one idea of a possible place. We decided on Vegas as a group after that.”

“I don’t think that’s how it happened, you said the beach house.”

“Okay, well now we have this problem again where you can’t remember conversations we’ve had. You don’t pay attention. I have to remember everything, and I clearly remember that you agreed I could have a weekend away with the girls.”

As you can see, if she controls the official meeting minutes of the relationship, she gets to be the one that remembers the relationship correctly. Which means she controls the entire frame of the relationship history. Which means if she’s fallen out of love with you, your entire relationship will be rewritten to frame you as some loser she was putting up with and her as the long suffering spouse. Thus explaining, when driven to the breaking point, the need to seek solace in the arms of another.

This mind control tactic is called Gaslighting.  And yes of course men can do the same thing to women too. I’ve seen victims of both sexes come stumbling onto the forum with having experienced Cardassian levels of mental conditioning.

Anyway…

If there is a patron saint of hamster, it’s Sir Humphrey…

Jennifer:  It’s nice to be Athol’s editor and ensure his postings are officially official.

 

Filed Under: Captain and First Officer, Cheating and Infidelity, Humor and Everything Else, Nice Guys and Betaization

Common Warning Signs Women Give of a Relationship Decline

June 3, 2013 By 20 Comments

Actually that’s a trick post title, there aren’t any common warning signs, there’s only one.

The sex starts to go away.

That’s it. That’s all you have to go on. You can fairly safely ignore all the words coming out of her mouth about the state of the relationship and simply focus on whether or not the sex is crappy/gone, or hot/frequent.

Marriage is always a sexual relationship. It can be a good sexual relationship, or a bad sexual relationship, but it’s always a sexual relationship. So if the sex is bad, your relationship is bad.

Unless you can point to clear reasons as to why sex isn’t happening, like she’s totally exhausted with breastfeeding a newborn, or her exam finals are stressing her out like crazy, or her parents are staying over and the walls are paper-thin, then you have a relationship problem happening. Note in all those things I suggested, they can all resolve and sex can bounce back. The newborn can get bigger. The exams are over. Her parents go back home. The sex comes back.

But if there is no bouncing back and your sex life is just crappy…  you’re in a bad relationship.

Any time someone says *everything* is going great about their relationship, except the sex, it’s a crock of shit. The relationship is a sexual relationship and the sex is bad so it’s a bad sexual relationship. Plus if you’re in a bad sexual relationship, so is your wife, so the clock may be ticking on a lot worse than simply you having to jerk off in the shower.

If this is all news to you and you want a good sexual relationship, you gotta buy the MMSL Primer and get the whole story.

Filed Under: Cheating and Infidelity, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Nice Guys and Betaization, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

Fun Money

May 28, 2013 By 20 Comments

I’ve been touching on how important money is in recent posts….

When people imagine life changing amounts of money, they always imagine millions of dollars, but consider what just a extra $2000 can do for a relationship if you’re the husband.

You could pay for a gym membership, have several moderate nights out, buy a couple nice shirts and even have enough for a weekend getaway. All of which could thaw your relationship with your wife even further as you get the rest of your life back under control. Then because your wife is back into you again, when the douchebag at her work makes a move on her… she tells him to get lost.

When douchebag makes his move, what happens if you don’t have that extra $2000 worth of positive appearance and shared and fun together? Fun money is important. No one wants to be in a relationship where you never have any fun.

You don’t have to make a million dollars. You do have to make enough to have some fun though.

Filed Under: Alpha and Beta Male Traits, Cheating and Infidelity, Instigate Isolate and Escalate, Sexy Moves, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

Why You Need The Blue Pill Too

May 20, 2013 By 48 Comments

The Red Pill is great, but we do actually need a little bit of Blue Pill too. There’s a balance… let me pull up the Hitchhikers Guide for a second…

The Belcerebons of Kakrafoon Kappa had an unhappy time. Once a serene and quiet civilization, a Galactic Tribunal sentenced them to telepathy because the rest of the galaxy found peaceful contemplation contemptuous. Ford Prefect compared them to Humans because the only way Belcerebons could stop transmitting their every thought was to mask their brain activity (or its readability) by talking endlessly about utter trivia. The other approach to dampening telepathic communication was to host concerts of the plutonium rock band Disaster Area. Thankfully, during the concert, an improbability field flipped over the Rudlit Desert, transforming it into a paradise, and cured the Belcerebons of telepathy. A Disaster Area spokesman said that this was “a good gig”.

You catch that… sentenced them to telepathy.

If you actually knew what every person was thinking 24/7, you’d quickly go insane from hearing the random thoughts of everyone else.

Imagine having sex with your partner and seeing their thoughts flick off topic for a few seconds. Without telepathy you’d just see them shut their eyes for a couple of seconds and you’d assume they were into it. Instead you’d know they were thinking about the grocery shopping, the truck, fuck my thighs hurt, I wish he’d just cum, I miss my ex-gf, that’s a big zit on her forehead, I shoulda peed before I started, shit don’t cum yet, why the fuck won’t he tie me up, it’s the top of the seventh and coming up to bat with a .365 average is… ah dammit I came, is that it?

Hell I was standing in line at Dunkin Donuts today and the three teenagers in front of me in line seemed a little on the douchebag side and I had a whole fantasy about just beating their underweight asses into the ground. Look I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying I was thinking about smacking that one first because he’d just run, one shotting the other one and then staring down the other one and saying “When you’re unconscious I’m not going to stop hitting you.”

I just need my coffee and no one gets hurt. Just be cool. We’re all going to be like little Fonzies.

Anyway, obviously I didn’t do that, because it was just a random thought, but I would imagine if they actually heard all that, standing in line would have gone differently.

The trouble is, a lot of the Red Pill approach to life assumes a near telepathic assumption of negative intentions in others. Is it often right? Sure it is. But it’s almost impossible to live happily if you are endlessly paranoid and jaded about the intentions of everyone around you. If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking… well it gets tiring being on edge after a while. Likewise every man is a third wheel seeking an opportunity and plots behind your back, pumping you for information about your woman, seeking to make a run into the endzone the moment you blink too slowly.

After living like that for long enough, well…

I see it a lot in Red Pill people. There’s often an expression of wishing they could just believe everything was fine, that love exists, that they could love and be loved… just for no reason.

I get it. I totally get it.

The standard line is that the Red Pill is the truth and the Blue Pill is the illusion. But it’s more like the Red Pill is muscle and the Blue Pill is fat.

To be sure, you want more muscle than fat on your body, but if you cut the body fat down low enough… eventually you keel over and die. You simply can’t be 0% body fat. Nor can you be 0% Blue Pill without being a rather paranoid and dysfunctional person. It’s simply not possible to sustain an endless state of assumed telepathy assuming your partner or opposite sex is out to get you.

If you see all women as gold-digging-cuckolding-false-rape-raptors, you can’t have a successful relationship with one. It’s no different than a dyed in the wool all-men-are-rapists-and-beat-women-as-a-default-setting feminist can’t have a relationship with a man. You eventually assume the worst and tear the relationship apart from the inside.

By all means pay excellent attention to building your muscle and getting your life in great shape, but at some point, you just have to say fuck it… and trust that your partner isn’t out to sneak some on the side as soon as you stumble for a moment. Obviously choosing a partner well is part of that decision matrix and having them on board with positive relationship standards matters too. But at some point you have to trust.

Jennifer and I do love each other very much… but it’s not a 100% perfect 24/7 experience. If we started fixating on the minor points of bad mood or inattention and assuming evil intent, we’d slowly tear each other apart. I’ve seen that effect play out with people snooping on their spouses over and over. I do advise at times getting your hands dirty and digging into their email and phone records to find out the truth, but I always say you should get in, get what you need and get out. Every time I see a spouse turn into a mini police state monitoring email… they slowly go insane reading and waiting for the slip up.

Do your due diligence, but at some point you have to trust.

Filed Under: Captain and First Officer, Cheating and Infidelity, How To Choose A Wife, Humor and Everything Else, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Nice Guys and Betaization, Sexual Health Issues, The Male Action Plan (MAP)

Is a Religious Conversion Like an Affair?

May 8, 2013 By 11 Comments

From the forum…

Sleepy:  I was reading Athol’s blog yesterday “Quirky Gifts and Flair” and read this line… she starts checking out of the relationship because she’s unhaaaaaappppppy and about to Eat, Pray, Love an exit.

So, my wife of 20+ years and 4 kids who has always been anti religion started to convert to Catholicism in secret. When I figured it out, I felt like she was cheating on me (about 6 months of individual and couples therapy and I still feel this way) as this was done in secret and her reason for needing god was that we were no longer good as a couple and she needed “love”. I flipped and basically took a position of no contact as if this was an affair, which she has done with just enough complaint that I know she still wants too.

Without going into all the details here (if there is a lot of interest I could add a thread in the 911 Relationship ER section) I guess my question is how evil am I and are there others out there who have felt this way?

Athol:  Well Eat, Pray, Love refers to a book, but the answer to your questions is yes / no / kinda / sorta / it depends.

It’s usually a critical junction when one half of a couple changes their religious status, either becoming more religious, less religious, or changing religions. They can be a wide variety of changes in personal interests and personality from benign to quite alarming as someone changes from one religious viewpoint to another. It’s always hopeful that an inter-faith marriage will stay stable, but the more divergent the expressions of belief are, the greater the stress is on the marriage.

This is largely the same effect at work as shared beliefs of any sort. Two democrats or two republicans are likely going to be more comfortable married to each other than a democrat and a republican are. It’s all about being able to relax with each other at the end of the day instead of wanting to disagree about something. Same deal if someone suddenly becomes crazy about a diet while the other isn’t. It’s a relationship stress to have one of you wanting to eat Paleo and the other being a Vegetarian… though the old joke stands that if you really want to piss off a Vegetarian give them vegetables to eat… most of them just want to eat pasta all day.

The more fundamentalist (Wikipedia) the conversion the greater the stress on the relationship is. Note that Wikipedia link to fundamentalist covers Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu and even Non-Religious fundamentalism. As soon as one half of the couple digs in their heels and states they are right and their partner is not merely in misguided disagreement, but utterly wrong… or even literally damned and/or evil for whatever reason… the relationship is heading for seriously choppy waters.

If you’ve ever had your partner educated as to your total failure of morality by their near entire social group, you’ll know just how hopeless your situation is. You could be a tax-paying, law abiding, full and complete stop on red, look both ways before you cross the street, girl scout cookie buying sweetheart, but having 20-30 people tell your spouse that failure to believe in [religious belief] turns you into a horrible fallen person hell bent on destroying everything precious and good… well, it has an effect. Speaking as a good evangelical Christian back in the day my first serious girlfriend was Catholic… it doesn’t take many people giving you “Godly frowns of concern” to make you feel uneasy about your relationship. That was a Catholic girl too, not even a clutch-the-pearls Non-Christian… that would have had people directly saying things to me like, “I’d like to encourage you to seek the Lord’s guidance”, which is how evangelicals tell you you’re retarded.

And yes I get that there are a wide variety of expressions of belief from rather insipid, to rather psychotic in intensity, even within each faith or even denomination. I’m painting with a wide brush here.

Anyway… back to the question at hand…

My knee jerk reaction to your situation is that you have two issues rather than one issue.

(1)  The state of the marriage.

(2)  Her interest in Catholicism.

What she’s saying is essentially, “Because of (1) I’m (2)” which is trying to turn it into one issue. This is a poor solution because the marriage issues aren’t going to be fixed by going to church and it is obviously driving a bigger wedge between you.

My advice would be to figure out the marriage issues as marriage issues, and allow the religious issue to be handled as a religious issue. So grab the free forum booklet and answer the nine triage questions in a 911 thread on the forum and people can help you get to the bottom of things.

Or put another way, if the marriage is chugging along just great, everyone getting along well, lots of sex and laughter… would it matter very much at all if she was a standard issue Catholic?

I will say this much though, I’m not convinced she’s been hiding it from you as a way of hurting you, more as a way of trying not to lose you in the process. When I became an atheist, I kept that a secret a looooooong time. I thought I was risking my marriage coming out about it, which because my faith was part and parcel of my attractiveness to Jennifer, I think it really was. When I finally told Jennifer she bawled her eyes out with me feeling like the worst husband ever. Even after that, it took fourteen years before I felt comfortable publicly identifying as an atheist.

Anyhoo…

As official MMSL policy, I personally don’t care what you believe or disbelieve in. I obviously self-identify as atheist because I don’t believe in a deity, but I’m not trying to actively convert anyone to that point of view on MMSL. I only try and get involved in religious issues on MMSL when it seems to be clearly screwing with the marriage. At this point the entire fabric of western civilization is sufficiently screwed up that individual marriages are like sandbags keeping back the flood-waters. I don’t care what type of sand you have in your bag, just that you have a sandbag that isn’t going to fall apart.

 

Filed Under: Captain and First Officer, Cheating and Infidelity, How To Choose A Wife, Humor and Everything Else, Monogamy and Marriage 2.0, Uncategorized
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