Getting Through to the Lazy Bear Husband

Short version… lazy bear husband, ten year marriage, crappy sex, four kids and husband rarely around….

OneFootOut:  Wanted to add, the reason the ultimatum has to be bigger and more impactful, is because I’ve called our pastor a few times over the years to initiate divorce plans, and I’ve told him I’m done,  told him I’m not attracted to him, etc. I’ve even left for a couple days, and kicked him out for a couple weeks, but nothing changes. It’s all beta-niceness for a couple weeks then back to normal old boring roommate mode. (I actually prefer the roommate thing to having him approach me for sex, though)

I also, after reading through many posts, am curious what it is about ME that’s most often attracted betas. The only 2 alphas I was with, were my absolute most amazing relationships, but the rest of them were just nice guys.

Athol:  Actually right now. Don’t do a damned thing to try and attract his attention to MMSL, it will only weaken it’s impact.

I would like you to read The Mindful Attraction Plan for yourself and report back where you think you are in the process, what you’ve tried and failed at before now.

It sounds like you’ve been unwittingly throwing Display of Low Value after Low Value at him.

OneFootOut:  Will do. I have started the book already.

I didn’t understand the last line of your post. Does that mean I’ve put him down? I’m very careful not to, but it happens. The only time I’ve ever said outright that I wasn’t attracted to him, was months after my first daughter was born (9 years ago) and I was having panic attacks during sex/from him approaching me. I couldn’t figure out what was wrong.

Athol:  No, I mean you’ve unwittingly put yourself down to him.

Every time you’ve gotten upset and begged him to change, you’ve told him you’re powerless in the relationship and that he is in charge.

Every time you’ve threatened divorce etc and then failed to follow through, you’ve told him you’re powerless in the relationship and that he is in charge.

Every time he’s ignored you and you’ve just soldiered on like it’s okay and done everything at home alone, you’ve told him you’re powerless in the relationship and that he is in charge.

Every time you let him drain your energy and get nothing in return, you’ve told him you’re powerless in the relationship and that he is in charge.

These are all Displays of Low Value.

Liberty:  This is so hard to grasp and REALLY understand but it is the truth.  If you fully embrace it, it will cause such a shift in your mindset, you’ll wonder what you’ve been thinking all these years.

I feel for you.  I came here with very similar experiences of complaining, trying to change, trying to get him to change etc, nothing works or sticks.  Gag!

I know you’ve been trying to fix it for years and feel like you are on your last possible tiny thread of tolerance.  But I believe this forum is where the magic is and you just got here.  It is working for me and things are changing.  Learn, read, change yourself and your perspective.  Good luck!

Serenity:  It is a tricky thing when the woman finds MMSL first and is the one who wants her husband to change.

Many of the wives here have stumbled around, making mistake after mistake with our husbands and being counter-productive.

Recommend that you save yourself a lot of time and heartache and take advantage of Athol’s private coaching option. Had it been available when I first started running my Map, I would have avoided a lot of pitfalls that slowed down our progress.

At some point, if you and Athol both feel that it’s time to bring your husband in, there’s no additional charge to include him as well.

Athol:  Actually Serenity got to be a guinea pig for some of this stuff, so coaching might not have helped much for her back then. But it’s proving to be rather effective for drawing the attention of the less interested partner now. There’s just something about your husband or wife getting “sort your life out” help that seems to really make the other person pay attention. Plus the no additional charge for a couple as opposed to one person doing it seems to be appealing too.

And yeah… ugh, I really have to get the coaching ads up on the blog and forum… and the MAP book linkage on the blog too.

There’s Enough Pain For Everyone

There’s enough pain for everyone.

The way to get past the pain and anger is to learn the pain and the anger of the opposite sex.

Then you start to realize that for every total fucking cunt that’s out there…

…there’s more women crying themselves to sleep because their husband doesn’t love them, cheats on them, has a broken dick, or is just totally fucking useless.

Then you start to realize that for every wife beating asshole that’s out there…

….there’s more men lost and confused as to why they held down a job, were nice, didn’t have some crazy addiction or defect but still live a life of endless rejection and grinding sorrow.

There’s enough pain for everyone.


Female Proximal Placement Means She’s Waiting For You to Make a Move

Husbands constantly miss the signs of their wives wanting sex. Sometimes all they do is put themselves in a proximal position to you and wait for you to make a move.

Let me say that again. Proximal placement means she’s waiting for you to make a move. Let’s start with outside the bedroom first though.

If it was say in a bar / club / social gathering / church / picking your kids up from school… and a woman intentionally positions herself near to you (especially if she does it on multiple occasions) and then looks like she’s waiting for a bus… the bus she’s waiting for is you. Make a move, say hi, she’s already interested. If she thought you were creepy, she wouldn’t position herself right next to you.

Submissive women do this all the time. They simply place themselves in a position where you have the opportunity to make something happen. If you don’t make a move, you miss out. That’s about all there is to it.

My first serious girlfriend did exactly that routine for about two weeks before I understood what was going on. She just started sitting near me in the library at college. After about two weeks of “hey that pretty girl is around a lot”, I finally asked her out. Of course back in the day that was a stomach churning moment, but looking back it was a total slam dunk. In fact she’d pretty much run a stakeout until I made a move. Duh.

Okay bedroom…

The kids are all out of the house all day at Connecticon, which is the big geek convention in Hartford each year. Crazy good costuming, sci-fi, comic books and aging Star Trek actors whoring themselves for rent money. Every year Jennifer and I say we’re going to do something fun without the children, but every time we just slump into exhaustion and nap. We’re like middle aged or something.

Anyway the living room is in “Sleepover Disarray” (TM) and rather than try and clean up the living room three days straight, we just let them make a mess and clean up once. The important point is that the living room floor is covered in mattresses. I trust you see where this is going.

So I’m halfway napping on one of the mattresses and Jennifer is on the sofa adjacent to me. At some point, her leg slides off the sofa and she places her foot lightly against the side of my leg and nudges it ever so slightly.

That’s it.

That’s all there is to it. That’s Jennifer initiating sex.

Placing herself proximal and waiting.

It’s easy to miss.

After that I massaged her calf a little. I’m not sure the exact order of events from here, but somehow Jennifer managed to slither off the sofa and get down on the mattress with me. Whereupon she ended up with her eyes closed, lying on her side, faux sleeping while I rubbed her back while she softly purred.  Back rub turns into ass rub, results in snuggling into me and smiling. So I said the three magic words every woman wants to hear.

“I’m gonna pee.”

After I peed, I came back ready for action, we threw the official “fucking in the living room blanket” down on one of the mattresses, and I took her to Poundtown; population two.

So there you go. If she’s hanging around and not making any obvious “no” signals, just assume it’s a yes and make a move. Women don’t isolate themselves with you unless they are into you.

Relationship Power vs Give and Take

@ernestern:  From my interpretations of the MAP, it is basically an exercise to put you in a situation where you are giving less to a relationship and taking more out of it.  In a perfect MAP, it would balance out to a point you are putting in as much as you are taking out, leaving both parties happy.

Athol:  Close, but not quite right. There’s two elements here you’re merging into a single thought. Let me separate them so you see the process better.

(1) Power. The MAP is about putting yourself in a situation where you no longer need your partner. So you aren’t weak toward them.

For example, I could if I liked, dump Jennifer and basically walk right now. I’d find someone new relatively quickly and my life would continue on. She could try the same thing… and it’s not going to go quite as well for her as it would for me. I don’t mean that to sound full of myself, it’s just how the Sexual Marketplace is slanted in women’s favor for the young and men’s favor for the older.

The takeaway is that in relationship terms, I have power over her and thus control the relationship.

(2) Give and Take. The MAP is about finding ways to balance out the give and take so both people in the relationship are getting what they want and need from it.

So for Jennifer and myself, we do have a fairly balanced relationship in terms of what we do for each other day-to-day. We both love and care for each other. I make more money than she does, but she also helps me with elements of that. The books are mine, but I share the income. I’m on her medical insurance. We’re really rather enmeshed in give and take.

So in a sense it’s like I’m the United States and Jennifer is Canada. I’m bigger and more powerful, but it’s not like I’m coming across the border with tanks, or even threatening to. Though I guess Canadians might see that arrangement differently.


So my demand, as the person in power, is that we have a good relationship and fairly and reasonably give and take with each other.

So from Jennifer’s perspective, that’s a good deal. Her main concern is that I’m not going to suddenly end the deal on her. It’s really not like I have to run some horrible dread game on her either, MMSL has been an education and she sees what’s out there. I also display loyalty and she’s involved increasingly behind the scenes with MMSL.

That being said…

When your partner is the person in power and being exploitive, your mission is to balance out the power, or take active control by trumping their power. Part of that process may very well involve refusal to give what they want in order to establish you are capable of such things, but it’s part of the process toward an end goal of a fairly balanced relationship.

Unfortunately, sometimes your partner is simply uninterested in any relationship with you unless they can endlessly siphon your time, money, effort and energy. Whereupon, you have to either leave or remain being their victim.

 If you’re the weaker partner in a relationship, you don’t have to worry about gaining power as long as the stronger partner is treating you fairly. I personally don’t want Jennifer feeling endless rolling stomach churning dread that I *might* leave her for example. That just gets me a freaked out wife for no gain to me.

That being said, if you’re the weaker partner… you are advised to not fall *that* far behind your partner.

If you want to read a whole lot more along those lines, The Mindful Attraction Plan book is the place to start.

Women Wear Money as a Display of High Value

@Angela:  What does everyone think about a woman letting her hair go gray at 50? I am toying with the idea. Can this be sexy, or am I completely ruining my Sex Rank? Can’t get any opinion from my husband, I don’t know whether he doesn’t care, or what.

Athol:  Whatever it is you chose, just make it look like money was involved in it’s production.
<insert many pics of doggystyle approved older chicks with gray hair>
@Maria:  One shouldn’t forget though, that grey hair as shown in the pics above, is NOT natural. Only very few women are so lucky to have shiny, all over grey hair; most of the time it’s mottled. So all that glamorous grey hair comes out of a bottle, too. It’s actually the most high-maintenance hair color after platinum blonde.

Athol: There’s obviously things like cut and design et al for hair and clothes, but the Display of High Value for women is to be effectively “wearing money”.

@Angela:  Thanks for all the input. I went to the hair salon this morning, the long, grey roots are gone, my hair is a nice rich auburn and I feel 15 years younger. I didn’t realize how much I was hating the gray experiment till it was over.

@x1134x:  Grey hair is not near the DLV that SHORT HAIR is.  At any age. Whatever you do, don’t cut it short.
Dye as long as you can do it and it still looks natural.  If you have wrinkled face skin from age, and a young, youthful head of hair, it looks off.

@Geekengineer:  Agree x eleventy bazillion.

A couple ladies at my office recently went from “actual upper-40s with long hair” to “actual upper-40s looking like a sad 60 year old grandma with no style” overnight by chopping it off to the poofball look. One had very grey hair that ended up getting colored black (looks terrible), the other had 1/2 grey that she colored dog-poop brown (looks… well, you know).

Athol:  So there you go. Keep your hair long. Keep it looking intentional. Keep it looking like some guy shells out cash in your direction.

That’s your Display of High Value for today.