Why You Need The Blue Pill Too

The Red Pill is great, but we do actually need a little bit of Blue Pill too. There’s a balance… let me pull up the Hitchhikers Guide for a second…

The Belcerebons of Kakrafoon Kappa had an unhappy time. Once a serene and quiet civilization, a Galactic Tribunal sentenced them to telepathy because the rest of the galaxy found peaceful contemplation contemptuous. Ford Prefect compared them to Humans because the only way Belcerebons could stop transmitting their every thought was to mask their brain activity (or its readability) by talking endlessly about utter trivia. The other approach to dampening telepathic communication was to host concerts of the plutonium rock band Disaster Area. Thankfully, during the concert, an improbability field flipped over the Rudlit Desert, transforming it into a paradise, and cured the Belcerebons of telepathy. A Disaster Area spokesman said that this was “a good gig”.

You catch that… sentenced them to telepathy.

If you actually knew what every person was thinking 24/7, you’d quickly go insane from hearing the random thoughts of everyone else.

Imagine having sex with your partner and seeing their thoughts flick off topic for a few seconds. Without telepathy you’d just see them shut their eyes for a couple of seconds and you’d assume they were into it. Instead you’d know they were thinking about the grocery shopping, the truck, fuck my thighs hurt, I wish he’d just cum, I miss my ex-gf, that’s a big zit on her forehead, I shoulda peed before I started, shit don’t cum yet, why the fuck won’t he tie me up, it’s the top of the seventh and coming up to bat with a .365 average is… ah dammit I came, is that it?

Hell I was standing in line at Dunkin Donuts today and the three teenagers in front of me in line seemed a little on the douchebag side and I had a whole fantasy about just beating their underweight asses into the ground. Look I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying I was thinking about smacking that one first because he’d just run, one shotting the other one and then staring down the other one and saying “When you’re unconscious I’m not going to stop hitting you.”

I just need my coffee and no one gets hurt. Just be cool. We’re all going to be like little Fonzies.

Anyway, obviously I didn’t do that, because it was just a random thought, but I would imagine if they actually heard all that, standing in line would have gone differently.

The trouble is, a lot of the Red Pill approach to life assumes a near telepathic assumption of negative intentions in others. Is it often right? Sure it is. But it’s almost impossible to live happily if you are endlessly paranoid and jaded about the intentions of everyone around you. If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking… well it gets tiring being on edge after a while. Likewise every man is a third wheel seeking an opportunity and plots behind your back, pumping you for information about your woman, seeking to make a run into the endzone the moment you blink too slowly.

After living like that for long enough, well…

I see it a lot in Red Pill people. There’s often an expression of wishing they could just believe everything was fine, that love exists, that they could love and be loved… just for no reason.

I get it. I totally get it.

The standard line is that the Red Pill is the truth and the Blue Pill is the illusion. But it’s more like the Red Pill is muscle and the Blue Pill is fat.

To be sure, you want more muscle than fat on your body, but if you cut the body fat down low enough… eventually you keel over and die. You simply can’t be 0% body fat. Nor can you be 0% Blue Pill without being a rather paranoid and dysfunctional person. It’s simply not possible to sustain an endless state of assumed telepathy assuming your partner or opposite sex is out to get you.

If you see all women as gold-digging-cuckolding-false-rape-raptors, you can’t have a successful relationship with one. It’s no different than a dyed in the wool all-men-are-rapists-and-beat-women-as-a-default-setting feminist can’t have a relationship with a man. You eventually assume the worst and tear the relationship apart from the inside.

By all means pay excellent attention to building your muscle and getting your life in great shape, but at some point, you just have to say fuck it… and trust that your partner isn’t out to sneak some on the side as soon as you stumble for a moment. Obviously choosing a partner well is part of that decision matrix and having them on board with positive relationship standards matters too. But at some point you have to trust.

Jennifer and I do love each other very much… but it’s not a 100% perfect 24/7 experience. If we started fixating on the minor points of bad mood or inattention and assuming evil intent, we’d slowly tear each other apart. I’ve seen that effect play out with people snooping on their spouses over and over. I do advise at times getting your hands dirty and digging into their email and phone records to find out the truth, but I always say you should get in, get what you need and get out. Every time I see a spouse turn into a mini police state monitoring email… they slowly go insane reading and waiting for the slip up.

Do your due diligence, but at some point you have to trust.

Is a Religious Conversion Like an Affair?

From the forum…

Sleepy:  I was reading Athol’s blog yesterday “Quirky Gifts and Flair” and read this line… she starts checking out of the relationship because she’s unhaaaaaappppppy and about to Eat, Pray, Love an exit.

So, my wife of 20+ years and 4 kids who has always been anti religion started to convert to Catholicism in secret. When I figured it out, I felt like she was cheating on me (about 6 months of individual and couples therapy and I still feel this way) as this was done in secret and her reason for needing god was that we were no longer good as a couple and she needed “love”. I flipped and basically took a position of no contact as if this was an affair, which she has done with just enough complaint that I know she still wants too.

Without going into all the details here (if there is a lot of interest I could add a thread in the 911 Relationship ER section) I guess my question is how evil am I and are there others out there who have felt this way?

Athol:  Well Eat, Pray, Love refers to a book, but the answer to your questions is yes / no / kinda / sorta / it depends.

It’s usually a critical junction when one half of a couple changes their religious status, either becoming more religious, less religious, or changing religions. They can be a wide variety of changes in personal interests and personality from benign to quite alarming as someone changes from one religious viewpoint to another. It’s always hopeful that an inter-faith marriage will stay stable, but the more divergent the expressions of belief are, the greater the stress is on the marriage.

This is largely the same effect at work as shared beliefs of any sort. Two democrats or two republicans are likely going to be more comfortable married to each other than a democrat and a republican are. It’s all about being able to relax with each other at the end of the day instead of wanting to disagree about something. Same deal if someone suddenly becomes crazy about a diet while the other isn’t. It’s a relationship stress to have one of you wanting to eat Paleo and the other being a Vegetarian… though the old joke stands that if you really want to piss off a Vegetarian give them vegetables to eat… most of them just want to eat pasta all day.

The more fundamentalist (Wikipedia) the conversion the greater the stress on the relationship is. Note that Wikipedia link to fundamentalist covers Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu and even Non-Religious fundamentalism. As soon as one half of the couple digs in their heels and states they are right and their partner is not merely in misguided disagreement, but utterly wrong… or even literally damned and/or evil for whatever reason… the relationship is heading for seriously choppy waters.

If you’ve ever had your partner educated as to your total failure of morality by their near entire social group, you’ll know just how hopeless your situation is. You could be a tax-paying, law abiding, full and complete stop on red, look both ways before you cross the street, girl scout cookie buying sweetheart, but having 20-30 people tell your spouse that failure to believe in [religious belief] turns you into a horrible fallen person hell bent on destroying everything precious and good… well, it has an effect. Speaking as a good evangelical Christian back in the day my first serious girlfriend was Catholic… it doesn’t take many people giving you “Godly frowns of concern” to make you feel uneasy about your relationship. That was a Catholic girl too, not even a clutch-the-pearls Non-Christian… that would have had people directly saying things to me like, “I’d like to encourage you to seek the Lord’s guidance”, which is how evangelicals tell you you’re retarded.

And yes I get that there are a wide variety of expressions of belief from rather insipid, to rather psychotic in intensity, even within each faith or even denomination. I’m painting with a wide brush here.

Anyway… back to the question at hand…

My knee jerk reaction to your situation is that you have two issues rather than one issue.

(1)  The state of the marriage.

(2)  Her interest in Catholicism.

What she’s saying is essentially, “Because of (1) I’m (2)” which is trying to turn it into one issue. This is a poor solution because the marriage issues aren’t going to be fixed by going to church and it is obviously driving a bigger wedge between you.

My advice would be to figure out the marriage issues as marriage issues, and allow the religious issue to be handled as a religious issue. So grab the free forum booklet and answer the nine triage questions in a 911 thread on the forum and people can help you get to the bottom of things.

Or put another way, if the marriage is chugging along just great, everyone getting along well, lots of sex and laughter… would it matter very much at all if she was a standard issue Catholic?

I will say this much though, I’m not convinced she’s been hiding it from you as a way of hurting you, more as a way of trying not to lose you in the process. When I became an atheist, I kept that a secret a looooooong time. I thought I was risking my marriage coming out about it, which because my faith was part and parcel of my attractiveness to Jennifer, I think it really was. When I finally told Jennifer she bawled her eyes out with me feeling like the worst husband ever. Even after that, it took fourteen years before I felt comfortable publicly identifying as an atheist.


As official MMSL policy, I personally don’t care what you believe or disbelieve in. I obviously self-identify as atheist because I don’t believe in a deity, but I’m not trying to actively convert anyone to that point of view on MMSL. I only try and get involved in religious issues on MMSL when it seems to be clearly screwing with the marriage. At this point the entire fabric of western civilization is sufficiently screwed up that individual marriages are like sandbags keeping back the flood-waters. I don’t care what type of sand you have in your bag, just that you have a sandbag that isn’t going to fall apart.


Covert Contracts vs. The Princess Fiona Plan

From the forum…

Matt266:  So @Athol_Kay talks about Shrek, Donkey Princess Fiona Plan in the book.  One thing I don’t understand is he says that Jennifer gets Princess Fiona preference, fine.  But then he goes on to say, if I rescue the princess I bang the princess.  Isn’t this a covert contract? ie. if I do this for wife then she gives me sex.

Please set me straight, just trying to learn!

Athol: Okay… so the original Shrek-Fiona-Donkey post is here. The TL:DR version being, I’m framing myself as Shrek, and making the women in my life fall in either the Princess Fiona or Donkey categories. I willingly do a lot of nice stuff for a Princess Fiona, but we also have an intense sexual connection, and Donkeys I don’t have a sexual relationship with… and they are their own beasts of burden.

Jennifer is the only woman in my life on the Princess Fiona Plan. I’d usually make some kind of joke about her frowning on other women or something after saying something like that, but it actually felt oddly peaceful to say that. Huh.


A covert contract would be where you decided to do a whole bunch of nice stuff for a woman, and then had an unstated expectation of sexual payment for services rendered. Typically sexual payment doesn’t happen anyway and then you get mad because you did all this stuff and didn’t get paid… which isn’t fair!  Meanwhile she thinks it isn’t fair that you suddenly sprung your cock into the mix like a bill collector.

What I’m doing with Shrek-Fiona-Donkey is making an overt contract.  Jennifer and I both understand and agree to the arrangement. I do X and I get Y. She gives Y and she gets X. It’s a fair exchange.

A covert contract is like when you stop at a red light and some homeless guy with a bucket and sponge starts washing your windshield, then holds out his hand for money.

An overt contract is like when you go to the car wash and pay for a car wash.

So the point of Princess Fiona vs. Donkey is to clarify in your mind, what your relationship is.

(1) A sexual relationship in which you’re all in.

(2) A non-sexual relationship in which you’re not assuming any special services.

I just clear it up ahead of time what it is going to be. There’s no point wasting your entire Saturday helping a girl you’re interested in, only to discover she has no interest in you beyond your labor assistance. If you’re going to end up masturbating no matter what… well you may as well just enjoy Saturday doing what you want to do.

Four More Years

Firstly, thanks to everyone who made today the best day of sales for the Pants Book ever. Much appreciated.


My eldest daughter is back from France today. High school French trip. When all said is done, I have a photo of her looking at some French ducks that cost me approximately $1500.

It’s actually been rather odd to have her gone for a week, she’s very introverted and self-sufficient, so it’s not like she takes up a lot of time and effort to manage. She’s so introverted, if we wanted to punish her, we’d send her to a party. I was surprised that I wasn’t a little sad she was gone, but as soon as she was back and completely gone from view into her bedroom… it was an entire week for her crushed up with other people, so exhausting… anyway… as soon as she was home, the house felt right again.

Jennifer was a little “on alert” all week figuring that sub-consciously she was always missing something. She has a far more attuned kid radar than I do, in no small part because I’m mildly deaf and simply never could hear the high pitched voices of children in the middle of night asking for cups of water. I’m a heavy sleeper too, so that just makes any hope of me being responsive hopeless.

In fact one legendary night a couple months back a raccoon got up on the roof and over the course of an hour, tore a foot wide hole in the roof, before hitting a crossbeam and figuring out he’d never get through that and giving up. Jennifer and both girls of course wide awake and in varying stages of freaked out by it. The girls spooked by the noise and Jennifer by the imagined cost of roof repair. I provided timely moral support and comfort by modeling unaffected concern and stability… by which I mean entire time the raccoon was directly over my bed growling and ripping up the roof… I slept the blissful sleep of the AMOG.

Youngest suddenly seems like she’s flipped from that “little kid” into being what looks and sounds like a proto-adult. Every single one of her close friends has in the last year had their parents go into some kind of marriage crisis… or had a step-parent suddenly die. Plus the usual boy trouble woes lol. I’ve seen her look at her phone once in a while with a “therapeutic frown” and vanish into her room… or occasionally… head to the end of the driveway for a good 30 minutes.

I don’t know what she talks about. I think there’s this assumed confidentiality thing where I don’t talk about MMSL peeps to her and she doesn’t talk about school peeps to me.

“Crazy people are crazy?”

“Crazy people are crazy.”

I’m so proud lol.

I’m proud of eldest too, though if she ever practices her “gaping bloody wounds” makeup for Cosplay zombies again without announcing it first, I’ll kill her. Special zombie contact lenses too which are f-r-e-a-k-y. One of the cats refuses to be petted by her anymore.


Four more years of teens and high school and then Jennifer and I are supposedly child-free for the majority of the rest of our life. The kids will always matter of course, but I won’t lie when I say I’m looking forward to it being just the two of us. We had this weird courtship in separate countries and just got married cold turkey so to speak. I don’t advise that as a plan lol. But still, we got lucky and it worked and in four years we’ll be mid-forties and done with the kid phase. After that…

…I think I’ll ask her out and we’ll start dating.


There is No Female Action Plan

A mildly disjointed collection of rantings trying to bitchslap the proper understanding of what running the MAP is, into the minds of the wives on the forum. Somehow there’s this understanding that the Red Pill is in fact pink, and all they need to do is grow long hair, put on some lipstick, fall on their backs with their legs apart, and their Alpha Prince will cum.

Except all that happens when they do that is their fat, underemployed ManBetaPig just enjoys the sex and then lights up a joint and plays Diablo 3 for five hours. I exaggerate to be sure, but that’s the essential problem.

So… ranting…

There is no “FAP”

The only difference between what a man needs to be doing and what a woman needs to be doing is what creates a dopamine response in the opposite sex.

Male Alpha = more dominance, power, strength

Female Alpha = more flirty, girly appearance

That’s about it.

If you’re a female running the MAP, you should have men other than your husband throwing IOI’s at you. If you don’t, you’re not yet in Phase Three.

Why the “default yes” is a bad thing

It’s basically like dumping three tons of fish into the dolphin tank at SeaWorld and wondering why the dolphins are no longer interested in doing any tricks.

If your wife is into you, she doesn’t need a rule to want to fuck you.

Serendipity gets it

 Serendipity: Yeah I learned the hard way that sex = everything is fine, but even when he wasn’t getting sex he didn’t seem to care and just gave up.  MMSL helped me understand WHY I didn’t want sex with my husband for so long when early on in the relationship I definitely did. I couldn’t understand what changed and lack of sex was something my husband complained about forever and I always thought it was the kids, being tired or whatever it was. Now I know why.

So despite my FAP I had to add in an ultimatum because there was some medical involved (anxiety/depression) and possible porn addiction (since deleted and seems done with).  If anything the FAP, some therapy and this site just really made me realize what my worth really is and that I was/am doing everything to fix my marriage and relationship. Been very loyal when other women may have had an affair of some sort.

Athol’s comment: “The central theme of MMSL is to get yourself into a position where you’re so valuable as a potential partner, that you no longer are required to tolerate being in a relationship with a crappy partner who refuses to handle their own shit.”

That’s exactly what did it for me. I got fed up. I was fixing my shit and now it was his turn or else I was leaving.

Female desire is reactive, but…

Female desire is reactive… but there are other men out there she can react to.

If a male 6 watches his wife transform from a 6 –> 7 –> 8  and does nothing about fixing his attractiveness and handling his shit, he’ll eventually lose her to another man if she decides to pull the trigger.

Maybe he does shape up / get to the doctor / get a job / stop being an ass…. maybe he won’t.

If he does, great. If not, well she can collect child support and be better placed to find another man.

That should all sound very familar.

If he’s freaked out and going full Beta…

When he goes full-bore Betamax you bring him to MMSL. Then he takes it all seriously because he has a pathway he can learn to walk where she ends up staying with him.

All the husbands brought to MMSL by their wives come freaking out and wanting to go full Beta. Then they learn.

Wives must work on looking hot

She absolutely must run girl game and spend more time at the gym no matter what.

Unless she maximizes her overall attractiveness to men in general, any ultimatum she pulls will be less likely to succeed.

Her hot gym body is her leverage.

If his dick doesn’t work

The ultimatum is you demanding he go to the doctor to get checked out

Stop listening to the men on the forum, they aren’t your husband

A forum wife who has a crappy husband, listening to a forum husband in a sexless marriage, can’t model her MAP on what he wants his wife to do. The problems are different.

It’s always the unhappy spouse that comes to the forum. The unhappy spouse always has to do the same thing – become attractive and strong enough to gain leverage in their own relationship and then if required, force the issue.

Why sexually rejecting  totally crappy husbands can be helpful over the long term

It’s not “rejecting him”.

You are making yourself more attractive – improving the quality of the cheese so to speak – and rewarding him when he acts in a positive manner.

“No X until Y” is training him to act in a certain way…. but so is “Yes X even if there’s no Y” training him to act a certain way.  It’s just training him to act a different way.

Most of the forum wives doing the “default yes” thing are simply running a variant on a covert contract. “I will X and you will Y” and then because X is given out before Y… Y doesn’t have to happen… so the wife gets pissed off and then can’t help but lower her sexual response to him.

Most women unwittingly ruin the sex as a reward by being so shitty in bed during the sex, that it becomes a form of punishment rather than a reward. Most guys would rather have 12 sexual experiences a year where the girl was really into it, than 120 sexual experiences a year where she lies there disgusted and immobile.

Offer high quality sex for his good behavior.

There’s no X until Y

I mean seriously. Would any of you as a mother walk into a grocery store and hand the kids a bag of candy and say “please be good” and then no matter how bad they were in the grocery store, do the same thing week after week after week?

If you’re a First Officer you’re meant to be able to stand in for the Captain if need be. Get a backbone, have some pride in yourself, have some standards. Stop this Nice Girl crap.

You wouldn’t let a random douchebag screw you, so why do you lower yourself to let the douchebag you live with do it?

Could you ever imagine Jennifer tolerating me being a drunken, unwashed, broke, loser and still fucking me every day? If you can, she wants to talk to you lol. We hold each other to high but not unreasonable standards. I am a better man for her and she’s a better woman for me.

That’s the MMSL model. I’ve been ranting this for over three years. I’m at a loss as to how my message is so distorted on this forum.

Jennifer: Damn straight. That is all.