Everything Is Better Except I’m Not In Love Anymore

Reader:  Okay, I was a beta schlub. That seems to be so far in the past now. I am reading the post on GNO and the man trips and am thinking, if my wife really wants to mess up, I am fine with it now. I won’t put up with it, I will just move on to another woman if that happens. I am content with my wife. She has a lot of great traits. But so do lots of women. I would be giving up some good stuff and a little bad stuff for new good stuff and bad stuff. I am not about to burn my marriage down, but I look at other options as possible if she decides she wants something else.

Have I gone too far in my thinking now? Is this too much lack of oneitis? I am just so far removed from my divorce is always the last option mentality of two years ago.

Athol:  I think there’s always a mental dip in love feelings as you run the MAP. If you’ve had your illusions shattered and figured out you did a bunch of stuff wrong in your relationship, it’s always hard going to own up to it and fix it. Usually there’s a sense of hope and progress as you turn things around, but it’s just not the same blind joy in your relationship you had before. It’s definitely better than the bad stuff that was going to go down… it’s just not as giddy as when it all started and before you realized it was almost about to all get flushed down the toilet.

Oneitis and the Alpha Widow effect are damn near the exact same thing, just two different terms to spin it into the frame of the man better. It’s basically just a high dopamine, low serotonin mental state and looks damn near the same as OCD focused on a person. It’s called falling in love.

That being said, learning the whole Red Pill point of view where everything gets boiled down to chemical reactions and you can consciously start doing things to manipulate your feelings, and your partner’s feelings…

…well after a while it starts seeming like the entire concept of love is all bullshit. Not only that, your entire relationship history was just slot A, tab B and a bunch of chemicals. If it’s all just this giant game, love dies. It’s all fake. Cause, effect. That’s it.

The good news is that you manage to fix your relationship and change all the structural stuff in your life Everything turns out better. You get on great. Sex is up. Kids are behaving better. More respect at work.

It’s just….


Everything is meh.

In time though, especially once you start really mastering what you’re doing and understanding about Alpha Beta et al, and you have your structural stuff together… you’ll start to forget you need to game each other. You’ll just be doing what you need to and getting on with it.

Then you’ll read something about some other couple with some kind of freaked up problem and you’ll look across the living room and tell your partner about it. They’ll look back with that “WTF” face and come over and read it over your shoulder and groan at the cluelessness with you. Their hand will be on your shoulder as they read and for some reason, their cheek is so very kissable…

The truth.

The truth…

The truth is that anyone who tells you that Oneitis can finally be killed, is either a badly damaged individual with serious attachment issues, or someone still working their way through the process. Quite obviously the goal of learning Game is not to turn yourself into a Cluster-B personality type, but to discover and master a relationship skill set in which you can love in relative safety of not being taken advantage of. For most of us though, getting to the end of the process is something that can take several years. It takes a long time to unlearn everything we did wrong, stablize and then learn what we need to and have it become second nature.

The truth is that all those chemicals… they. feel. so. real. and. you. cannot. stop. them.

The truth is you can resist all you like, but attraction is not a choice. So you will feel love again. You can’t choose not to feel.

The truth is love will come back.


Though I do have one caveat about all that in relation to the woman you are with…

…she needs to be a First Officer worth a damn.


Video related / unrelated.

Age Gaps are a Relationship Stress

There’s a fairly well known average age differential in marriages where the husband is about 2.5 years older than the wife. Humans have a mild Sexual Dimorphism with the males growing bigger and stronger than the females and full mating maturity takes a little longer for the men. The rule of thumb being the bigger the males get than the females in any species, the more important male on male violence is to win female sexual interest. Which is the only reason football exists. The girls may have no interest in watching football, but they are interested to know who is on the team.


Average age difference is about 2.5 years older for the men. In more MMSL related terms, the male Sex Rank takes a little longer to build and the female Sex Rank is weighed towards the younger model.

Most couples are going to clump around the average and have normal age spread between the couple between about zero and five years in favor of the husband being older than the wife. So a married 35 year-old man for example, usually has a wife aged anywhere between 30 and 35. That’s going to be a mildly positive effect on the relationship. He’s a little older and it’s easier to lead someone younger than you, so there’s a nice built in Alpha dynamic there.

I know it sounds trivial, but all the little milestones like turning 40, if the husband hits them first… there’s this tiny sliver of knowledge and experience he has over his wife. It’s just a tad easier being Captain when you’re a little ahead of your wife.

However, once you start spreading the ages apart much further than that, it starts becoming increasingly a negative factor the further you get. Whoever is the older partner, must bring a more focused game to the table to maintain the relationship interest of the younger partner.

Take for example a much older man than woman. Say a couple meets when he is age 40 and she is age 25. She cute and bubbly, he’s in shape and has some cash and game. They marry. The 40-year-old husband though, had to be able to be competitive with age 25-30 men (her normal age cohort of interest) in order to win her attention. So he’s had to bring some serious skill and likely just straight up resources to the table. In fact she probably wasn’t immediately interested in him, but he won her attention. She’s probably said, “I didn’t think I would go for an older guy, but….” and then fill in the blanks about why wonderful Mr. X is the exception to the rule.

However, Mr.X is always going to have to remain competitive with men 10-15 years younger than him, to maintain her interest in him. So when he is 55-years-old and she is 40-years-old, he’s still having to act like his competition is 40 to 45-year-old men. Which as time passes, is somewhat of a risk. If Mr. X at age 55 has a major reversal of fortune in either finances or health, he’s quite likely going to have trouble maintaining his wife’s attraction. He must always be on top of his game.

Likewise in relationships with a woman who is older than the man, similar stresses exist. If he is 30-years-old, and she is 35-years-old, her competition for his attention are 25 to 30-year-old women. Thus she must always keep herself in excellent shape, pay attention to maintaining a youthful appearance and generally be pretty pleasing in the sack.

If you’re eager to tell me a story about a hot, sexually insatiable older woman, that’s just making my point. Men barely even notice women older than themselves unless they ooze sexiness and look great for their age. 35-year-old men don’t swap stories about obese 48-year-old women who wear granny panties. A totally put together 48-year-old who swallows, is down for anal and threesomes… well maybe.

There are particular risks for the older woman though. I’m very often seeing the younger man, older woman situation develop, because the man has some sort of limitation with women at the time the relationship begins. Whether that’s just terrible skills in meeting women, some sort of childhood issue unresolved, a lack of understanding his value in the sexual marketplace, it doesn’t really matter. In short, he has a problem. The risk for the older woman is that at some point… he solves it.

So say a couple meets when he is 23-years old and she’s 30-years-old. He’s not the greatest with women, she’s got some experience and makes it easy for him. He’s kinda broke and she’s established. He’s a little lost and she grounds him. It’s all good, because she’s good for him. But if when he’s 35-years-old, his life finally clicks in place, he’s in shape, his career is going well and he learns a little game…. well he’s solved his problem… he can fairly easily pull the interest of 30 to 35 year old women… and she’s 42-years-old. In that situation, if she has any weaknesses in her game, things can unravel rather quickly.

So… what to do?

Well if you’re already in a relationship and you’re the older one… you’ve absolutely got to bring your A-game. It’s no different than any other relationship, but the margin of error is smaller. You want to be with the young hottie… you gotta keep the young hottie interested in you.

If you’re getting into a relationship with a major age spread, it isn’t an automatic ruling out, but you do need to go into it with eyes wide open. Is this something that can be sustained over the long term?

Also if you’re getting into a relationship with a major age spread, is the relationship only interesting because it’s solving a problem for you now, that you will eventually solve anyway? Thus reducing your need for your partner over time, or possibly even encouraging them to sabotage you fixing it?

Plus for normal age distribution couples…

The way women out live men is always a concern for the endgame years. It’s no fun living alone for the last decade of your life. Mutual good health is always a priority in a marriage.

So yeah… kinda depressing to read and think about it I know, but knowing your Relationship Math can be the difference between an easy marriage and a hard one.

Good Beta, Betaized, Butler and Hooker Math

Beta skills are great. Everyone needs to know how to cook a meal, clean a house, buy groceries and generally have a full compliment of basic life skills. These really aren’t male or female skill sets in my mind, any one can do these. Kids can do them, I’ve taught people with developmental disabilities to do them.

Good Beta – I help out around the house a lot. I actually generally enjoy performing house work, I’m not saying our house is spotlessly clean and ready for the Queen to visit, but it’s not a health and safety concern either. Jennifer also does a lot of stuff around the house as well, so we both work and we both keep house. Jennifer is also appreciative of me helping out and I’m appreciative of her helping out.  Jennifer does more cooking and laundry than I do plus the grocery shopping. I do more yardwork, cleaning and move the high and the heavy objects. So in the context of Team Kay, my Beta skills and performance is a good thing.

I was actually quite pleased when in the middle of finishing off Thanksgiving Dinner together, Jennifer’s grandmother said, “Look at you two, it’s like you’re working in a restaurant.”   I’m performing Beta skills, but I’m also getting credit for them. I’m not building attraction that way, but I’m creating comfort and in Jennifer’s mind I’m getting points for it.

Betaized – This is where you’re still performing Beta skills, perhaps even exactly the same tasks as I’m doing, but you’re getting no credit for it. If your attractiveness is low, she doesn’t fear losing you, so all the Beta goodies you do are simply to make her life easier, rather than soothe away any sense of dread that you’re not emotionally attached to her. Thus…

If Jennifer is attracted to me, my helping out makes her feel safe about being attracted to me. I’m valuable to her vagina and I’m not one of those hit and run penises.

If Jennifer isn’t attracted to me, my helping out means my value to her is what I’m doing to make her life easier. Her vagina doesn’t care as long as my penis doesn’t go wandering off on an adventure.

You can tell when you’re in this situation because instead of her acting pleased, delighted or positive by your Beta goodies, she simply expects them. If all she does is a micro-second smile and praise routine, she’s simply being polite. Note the difference between her “positive attention” to you for doing something good, and how she acts when the dog takes a dump. If the dog is winning, you’re Betaized.

She’s also very likely giving you directions, demands, lists and expects task compliance. The marriage is run on her schedule and whim. You may very well be cooking gourmet meals, shelling out for expensive trips and surprising her with jewelry…  but it doesn’t count for shit unless she already wants to fuck you.

Butler – This is when Betaized turns into Betashit Crazy. If your wife is a SAHM… and you’re the one both holding down a job AND running about cooking, cleaning, taxi driving the kids everywhere, grocery shopping, yada yada yada…. you’re doing her whole damn job for her!

Now don’t get me wrong here, a SAHM isn’t going to be 100% responsible for every domestic chore in the house while hubby cracks open a beer and farts as hard as he can into the good sofa, that’s a bit much I agree. (Please refer back to “Team Kay” in the Good Beta section of this post, trust me, I get it.)  But if he comes home from work and then is doing 2-4 hours of chores of some description and then not getting even a whiff of the aroma of pussy… he’s basically her butler. His sole purpose is to provide her with a womb-like level of services.

You know how there’s that SAHM thing, itemizing out the value of everything she does to some crazy figure? You know, the one where it tries to assess the cost of everything she does on a per hour basis if was done by outside service providers. Personal chef $400 a week, maid service $300 a week, laundry $150 a week, personal shopper $250 a week, nanny $300 a week, nurse $100 a week, limo driver $300 a week….. = $1 million dollar value of service provided in a year. Okay, so hold that in your head for the next step…

Now account that value assessment for your own domestic chores, into your Hooker Math equation.

(Total yearly income from job + Bullshit domestic chore value plucked from air)  /  Number of times you have sex a year = Cost per lay

If your cost per lay is a figure that makes you disgusted,  you’re her butler.

Have a think about that.


Oh No, Not Again

Jennifer had a mammogram a week ago. Having been through two false alarm / benign biopsy experiences, I really don’t react with back-flips of joy when she has to have a mammogram. Asked if she wanted me to come, said she’s be fine, nothing I would be able to really do/see anyway. It’s just a mammogram.

So I timed my gym for the day with her mammogram and just pedalled particularly fast. When I was done, she was done. The Tech said it all looked fine but would be seen by a Radiologist for follow up. Great, that’s over, and we went out for lunch.

Except the Radiologist didn’t like the look of something, and she went back today for another mammogram.

This time I went. There was nothing I really got to do or see other than sitting in the waiting room. I read a book for fifteen minutes and she was back out again. Once again the Tech said it all just looks like the same calcification’s they’ve seen before, nothing to worry about. Obviously all gets to be seen by a Radiologist and follow up blah blah blah.

Great, that’s over, and we went out for lunch.

Look I know… second worse case scenario if it’s really bad they will catch something early and I think Jennifer would just say, let’s just be done with it and go the double mastectomy and reconstruction route. Lots of pain and recovery, but 6-12 months later life would be back to normal with a justifiable boob job added to the mix.

Really worst case scenario there’s a horrible slow death from cancer. I’d stay with her to the end and get through it and be strong and all that. I know I would. Being an attention whore I’d write about it and eventually find someone new. I’d be okay.

I think it was ten years ago we had the first breast cancer stare… as in idiots mailed the mammogram report to our house that said MALIGNANT. Jennifer was a bawling wreck for nights on end and I was a mess too, I just was full on coping with her being a wreck that I couldn’t really do anything. I was simply terrified she was going to die and leave me all alone with two little girls.

Anyway, we’ve grown. If it’s malignant, we just move forward and face what comes. I think Jennifer almost thinks of that first wrong diagnosis as a semi-near death experience… after that, in terms of health she’ll cope with whatever. For myself, no matter the outcome I’ll be okay. Either she’ll be totally fine, I’ll end up with a wife with a justifiable boob job, or I’ll find someone new.

So I’ll be fine.


Just fine.

Totally fine.


“Oh no, not again” reference… (Geeks only!)

EDIT:  Same benign things they’re seen before. Repeat mammogram in six months.

When You Come From Different Countries

Reader: After reading your post about religious and political differences and raising children, I was wondering what you thought about cultural differences and being from different countries. How did you and Jennifer decide where to live and have children? Would you ever go back to New Zealand?

Athol:  Well we did have a plan at the time we got married. Being structural thinkers even then, we realized that the exchange rate between New Zealand and America was very much in America’s favor. So we figured if we ever had to switch countries it was going to be much easier to move from America to New Zealand, rather than from New Zealand to America. As things have turned out, the exchange rates have stabilized somewhat and housing in New Zealand is more expensive than America and any advantage we imagined is gone. Oh well, it was a best guess anyway.

We also figured Jennifer was going to struggle a great deal without her family around, while I’m fairly resilient in that aspect. If we moved now, she’d be fine though. We’re family now. Overall, it’s worked out very well for us. We moved to a middle sized town in Connecticut and then have moved twice within that town since then. So I’ve lived in New Zealand until I was 24, then in America for 18 years .

The good points are that people are the same where ever you go. New Zealand and America are English speaking, Western, democratic, capitalist countries, and there are more differences inside the countries, than between them. If you have money and a job you’re okay, if you’re broke and uneducated you’re not having a good time. So moving here was fairly easy for me.

There’s always a nice little edge to things between you when you’re from different countries. You’re always just a little bit unknown to each other, though the longer we’re married the less those little moments happen. We don’t hear each others accents anymore. It’s kinda fun to be from different countries.

Both kids love New Zealand… though they’ve only been on vacation, so it’s not a true understanding of the culture. They like that they have a mixed heritage. Also they have both been very healthy kids. Cross breeding for the win. I’m totally serious on that point. I think the separate countries deal plays a role in still being attracted to each other.

It also makes for a great destination for a major family trip. There’s a natural drama and excitement to see the other half of the family and you get an insider’s vacation experience rather than a touristy one. The kids get to play with their cousins and meet aunts and uncles and whatnot. It’s a BIG trip. Very memorable. Photos and albums and whatnot. I think it rounds the kids out more.

The bad things creep up on you slowly. We only have one set of grandparents close by for babysitting and visiting. When something bad happens in New Zealand… I can’t really do anything but know about it. I basically lost contact with everyone I knew there for ages upon ages until finding people on Facebook a couple years back. I didn’t realize how losing my entire social network was going to affect me. Looking back I realized dad could have probably made a few phone calls and seriously helped get me a pretty decent starting position somewhere. For a long time I was behind Jennifer in earnings and that was just weird to me.

The most important thing you can do is make a decision to be in one country or the other and just stick with it. There’s good and bad in every country, you’re just picking your poison. If you try and ping-pong between the two places it’s hugely expensive and unless you’re moving for a juicy promotion, you’re hurting your career advancement. Plus moving really screws with the kids.

The separate country marriage is a double or nothing gambit. If it’s good, it’s really good. If it’s bad, it’s really bad.

In-laws are critical. We both have understanding and good parents. I think if either set was nutty it would be vastly harder.

Being similar to each other is important. Aside from the differences in country, Jennifer and I are quite similar. It’s not good to be exactly the same as each other, but some differences are fun and create a little friction that keeps things fresh. But too much different and you run out of common ground and stop relating to each other.

In terms of going back to New Zealand… maybe. I’ve been back three times now and it’s always a really good, but slightly odd experience for me. Like I stumbled into Narnia by accident or something. We might retire there or something. We’ll see. We’re actually looking at a potential move to Dallas in about 2018 when the girls are in college.

Anyway… as long as we go together… we’ll always be home.  (Jennifer: happy mushy sigh…)


Jennifer:  The girls are minor celebrities at school every time they go on a trip to New Zealand.  They have a wider appreciation for the world, and understand that not everyone lives the same way.  It’s the little things that they pick up on too…like loving being somewhere where they could walk to town to go to a restaurant or shopping (the whole cafe culture thing…love it!), and the fact that their cousins could go to school with no shoes on and not get in trouble for it!