Was It The Booze, Or Was It The MAP?

Valmont:  So, recently started MAPing and sex has been rare (like once or twice a month) and a source of tension for two years. Her enjoyment has been sporadic to say the least (but not totally gone). I just want your views on last night.

We had a party and had parked the kids with grandparents. I’ve been MAPing, imperfectly for about a month. There’ve been signals that she’s been picking up on this but yet to have a real conversion into the bedroom. So, yeah, I was hoping for something out of a decent party with no kids to come home to.

That night, I mapped it like a mofo. I’m not normally into dress up events but, what’s that babe? you want me to grow an awesome mo? Game on. You wear that mini skirt and it’s a deal.

Get to the party and get her a drink but then make a mental note to start chatting to the other ladies there. After about 10 minutes I remembered something; how freaking charming I can be when I want to turn it on. So I turned it on. Never in a threatening way but enough that by the end of the night I had her and her best lady friends laughing, flirting, dancing, and just not leaving my side. Gold.

I also made a point of keeping tabs on what I was drinking. Just enough to get lucid but I paced it with soda to make keep me level.

So we get home at about 3. She’s never one for affection in public but the minute we shut the front door – bang. I’m not going to turn this into some indiscreet penthouse forum clone but I have been wracking my brain to think of anytime, ever, when we have fucked like that, and I simply can’t. It. Was. Awesome. She wanted to be taken, and how; and she was completely vocal about everything, which is so out of character but so welcome. It was like every inhibition that had built up over the years was wiped. To switch to beta, it wasn’t just fucking. It was incredibly close too. We were ecstatic afterwards.

So what’s the problem then? The next day I tried to reward this with a decent breakfast. It was then that I realized that she had hit the sauce quite a bit the night before. She was quite hungover and most embarrassed about it.

I switched to full beta mode to get us all through the day but immediately began to wonder, “ah crap, so was it just the booze?”  I know the MAP plan is send a follow up message the next day about how awesome last night was, but I knew that with a hangover she would not receive it well.  So I waited until later that night, when the fog had cleared to just drop a, “you were awesome” into conversation. I got a slightly embarrassed groan and a “I was pretty drunk.” She clearly did not want to discuss further.

My dilemma is this. My (beta) inclination is to want to sit down and say, “that was awesome, for both of us, what made it possible and how do we do it again?” But one thing I have learned is that she HATES talking about sex. Ever.

I’m really starting to get a picture of someone who intellectually has been raised with all the feminocentric programming but underneath just wants a good strong man to drag her by the hair to the cave. I think this tension causes a lot of anxiety and even shame – which corrupts not only our ability to talk like adults about sex by I also think is the big inhibitor in getting her going in the first place.

But my big question is, was it the MAP or the booze? If it’s the MAP then I just keep mapping and this sort of action should slowly become the norm. But if was just the booze…..

Athol:  Imagine a scale of 0-100 of how interested in fucking you she is. The higher the number, the more she wants it.

Let’s assume you’ve been stuck at about a 30 for ages.

A couple days back you apologized / owned your shit. +10 and you’re at 40.

You dressed up nice +10

You turned on the charm +10

You have her friend laughing and being into you +10

You got a ton of drinks into her +20

Result for that one night 90 out a 100 on her scale. Fireworks.

So was it the MAP or the booze? Well it was a bit of both.

However, over the long-term you’re going to work on the structural attraction issues, that work every single day in the background and slowly get your baseline creeping up and up. So on any given day, you don’t have to jump through a dozen hoops to make it all happen.

I mean it’s fun once in a while to spruce up and paint the town red, but gets exhausting if that’s what you have to do every single time to get laid.

On the plus side though, that one night probably got you a +2 or something to her baselines interest in you. So if before the evening she was stuck around the 40 point mark, today she’s moved up to 42. So she’s starting to thaw a little. So while the whole night was a bit of a planned charm offensive and a bit of a trick, it all went well and gave you a little boost toward your long term goal of getting her overall interest up higher.

So all in all, worth the effort. You just can’t expect tomorrow evening you’re going to get her shrieking and squealing like she’s at 90 sexual interest in you.

Always well worth getting the relationship momentum heading upwards though.

 

 

What Are Your Best Books And Resources?

Time to expand my reading a little. What are your favorite books and/or resources over these six broad categories?

(1)  Physical Fitness, Food and Health.

(2) Money and Material Possessions.

(3)  Alpha Goodness and Attraction.

(4)  Beta Goodness and Comfort Building.

(5)  Personality and Peak Performance / Success.

(6)  Sex Life and Bedroom Fun.

Why You Need The Blue Pill Too

The Red Pill is great, but we do actually need a little bit of Blue Pill too. There’s a balance… let me pull up the Hitchhikers Guide for a second…

The Belcerebons of Kakrafoon Kappa had an unhappy time. Once a serene and quiet civilization, a Galactic Tribunal sentenced them to telepathy because the rest of the galaxy found peaceful contemplation contemptuous. Ford Prefect compared them to Humans because the only way Belcerebons could stop transmitting their every thought was to mask their brain activity (or its readability) by talking endlessly about utter trivia. The other approach to dampening telepathic communication was to host concerts of the plutonium rock band Disaster Area. Thankfully, during the concert, an improbability field flipped over the Rudlit Desert, transforming it into a paradise, and cured the Belcerebons of telepathy. A Disaster Area spokesman said that this was “a good gig”.

You catch that… sentenced them to telepathy.

If you actually knew what every person was thinking 24/7, you’d quickly go insane from hearing the random thoughts of everyone else.

Imagine having sex with your partner and seeing their thoughts flick off topic for a few seconds. Without telepathy you’d just see them shut their eyes for a couple of seconds and you’d assume they were into it. Instead you’d know they were thinking about the grocery shopping, the truck, fuck my thighs hurt, I wish he’d just cum, I miss my ex-gf, that’s a big zit on her forehead, I shoulda peed before I started, shit don’t cum yet, why the fuck won’t he tie me up, it’s the top of the seventh and coming up to bat with a .365 average is… ah dammit I came, is that it?

Hell I was standing in line at Dunkin Donuts today and the three teenagers in front of me in line seemed a little on the douchebag side and I had a whole fantasy about just beating their underweight asses into the ground. Look I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying I was thinking about smacking that one first because he’d just run, one shotting the other one and then staring down the other one and saying “When you’re unconscious I’m not going to stop hitting you.”

I just need my coffee and no one gets hurt. Just be cool. We’re all going to be like little Fonzies.

Anyway, obviously I didn’t do that, because it was just a random thought, but I would imagine if they actually heard all that, standing in line would have gone differently.

The trouble is, a lot of the Red Pill approach to life assumes a near telepathic assumption of negative intentions in others. Is it often right? Sure it is. But it’s almost impossible to live happily if you are endlessly paranoid and jaded about the intentions of everyone around you. If every woman is a hot mess of whorish desire and nothing else but a lying cunt of a hamster justifying her Alpha male sperm seeking… well it gets tiring being on edge after a while. Likewise every man is a third wheel seeking an opportunity and plots behind your back, pumping you for information about your woman, seeking to make a run into the endzone the moment you blink too slowly.

After living like that for long enough, well…

I see it a lot in Red Pill people. There’s often an expression of wishing they could just believe everything was fine, that love exists, that they could love and be loved… just for no reason.

I get it. I totally get it.

The standard line is that the Red Pill is the truth and the Blue Pill is the illusion. But it’s more like the Red Pill is muscle and the Blue Pill is fat.

To be sure, you want more muscle than fat on your body, but if you cut the body fat down low enough… eventually you keel over and die. You simply can’t be 0% body fat. Nor can you be 0% Blue Pill without being a rather paranoid and dysfunctional person. It’s simply not possible to sustain an endless state of assumed telepathy assuming your partner or opposite sex is out to get you.

If you see all women as gold-digging-cuckolding-false-rape-raptors, you can’t have a successful relationship with one. It’s no different than a dyed in the wool all-men-are-rapists-and-beat-women-as-a-default-setting feminist can’t have a relationship with a man. You eventually assume the worst and tear the relationship apart from the inside.

By all means pay excellent attention to building your muscle and getting your life in great shape, but at some point, you just have to say fuck it… and trust that your partner isn’t out to sneak some on the side as soon as you stumble for a moment. Obviously choosing a partner well is part of that decision matrix and having them on board with positive relationship standards matters too. But at some point you have to trust.

Jennifer and I do love each other very much… but it’s not a 100% perfect 24/7 experience. If we started fixating on the minor points of bad mood or inattention and assuming evil intent, we’d slowly tear each other apart. I’ve seen that effect play out with people snooping on their spouses over and over. I do advise at times getting your hands dirty and digging into their email and phone records to find out the truth, but I always say you should get in, get what you need and get out. Every time I see a spouse turn into a mini police state monitoring email… they slowly go insane reading and waiting for the slip up.

Do your due diligence, but at some point you have to trust.

You Threw Off My Groove

When I started MMSL, I figured that I was going to be besieged by angry feminists demanding my head. Instead I got a smidgen of disgruntled SAMH’s ranting on mommy blogs once in a while. Really, that’s been about it. Even when a lone feminist gets into it in the comments, I’ve typically sat back and watched the female readership of MMSL tear into her saying “we like it, go away”.

Instead 95+% of the nasty stuff in the comments et al have been from men. Usually it’s just grindingly negative whining about how something sucks and/or how I suck in particular. A lot about how I’m not hating women to their desired specifications. Everything is feminism’s fault yada yada yada.

If you go back to when I started posting on Talk About Marriage to now, it’s been four years of writing about ways to fix marriages, restart sex lives and generally keeping men out of divorce court. Families together yada yada yada. That’s four years of writing, answering email, putting my name and private life out there and gambling a career on all this. I’m at somewhere around 900-1000 emails, blog comments and forum messages that MMSL has made a serious difference to men in particular.

….and I’m the jerk that doesn’t care about men?

Look I know I’m just meant to not care about whiny assholes complaining on the blog… but the fact is if I wasn’t somewhat emotionally sensitive and driven, MMSL would have folded up shop long ago. It doesn’t hurt my feelings, there’s no box of tissues in use, but it really does just drain the life out of me and kills all motivation to sit down for another day and help another random male stranger in desperate circumstances via email or the forum. It throws off my groove.

So anyway… I’ve come toward the limits of my tolerance and endurance with this shit. Either stick around and help me help married guys in trouble, or fuck off making so much noise and scaring away the Nice Guys who need the help.

Thus a new commenting policy is born….

If you want to leave some shitty “it all sucks and there’s no solution” or snarky “fuck you” directly at me… that just might throw off my groove…

Marriage is always going to have to be a win-win exchange for both sides of the couple. If you want some sort of lubeless-surprise-anal approach to women, it’s just not going to be here.

TL:DR  My groove gets thrown off and it’s hard to write creatively and give my best effort at helping people.

You Can’t Win If You Don’t Play

There are no guarantees with life.

Sometimes you’ll win, sometimes you’ll lose.

But if you don’t play the game, you will always be choosing to not win.

If you live a life of not winning long enough, you’ll be a loser.

So get in there and play.

The only thing you have to lose… is losing.

When You Get a Yes… Stop Talking

When you negotiate to get something you want from someone, if they agree to grant your wish… STOP TALKING.

Seriously. Just zip your lip. You got them to agree to what you wanted, so stop trying to convince them further that you should get what you want. You already have the yes you want, so all that can happen if you keep talking to them, is you give them a reason to change their mind to a no.

You’ve already closed the deal. Stop yapping. Just let it sit.

It doesn’t matter whether you’re a kid asking to go to a party, an employee asking for a promotion, a wife asking her to husband go to the doctor, a husband asking for sex.  You’re asking for something, they said yes. Don’t hear the yes and then explain that saying yes is a great deal because…

…Mike’s brother was the one that bought all the beer to the party last year and he’s not coming because he’s in jail now. So it’s cool right?

…that’s you’re the only one in the whole agency that can operate the old TPS Machine and the new ones aren’t being delivered for nine months. So you’re valuable right?

…that you’ve been talking to all your girlfriends about Mr. Droopy and they all agree that you really have to see a doctor. So you’re going right?

…that you’re tired of jerking off. In fact you did that just last night to some Japanese Tentacle Porn. But it was only $4.99 for the show, so that’s no problem right?

Right?

Right?

No you can’t go to the party. What the hell happened last year? What did Mike’s brother do to go to jail? Who is Mike anyway?!

No at this point you’re just too valuable working the old TPS machine. There’s just no way we could move you until the new ones arrive.

What do you mean to talked to everyone about that?!  WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT TO EVERYONE? I DON’T HAVE A PROBLEM, IT’S ONLY BEEN HAPPENING FOR A YEAR.

What’s Japanese Tentacle Porn? Hang on let me Google… huh… ahh. WTF IS THIS SHIT?!?!? OMG!!! YOU PAID MONEY FOR TH…. Bbbbbbrrrrooooghghghhhhh… You sick, sick bastard. Get away from me. NO. NO. NO.

See?

See?

If you get your yes, just stop talking.

Jennifer: Athol gave me the “what has been seen can’t be unseen” warning for Japanese Tentacle Porn. I’m not looking. I’m not looking. I’m not looking… sigh dammit…

…Ohhh FML.

What a Difference a Year Makes…

Athol:  @Hygenius and @x1134x are married forum members who discovered MMSL in June 2012 and joined the forum when it opening in July 2012.

Some selected quotes from July 2012

@x1134x - HOW THE HELL DO I MOVE SEX TO THE FRONT OF HER ‘want to get done today’ list?  Why is IT the expendable item? It was on her list this morning. The answer to “how could you have energy to work out but not the energy to fool around?” was “I need to workout for my back, its really tight”. Am I being a jerk? Or is the the fitness test I’m just unable to overcome? Feel like we took four steps forward, but now I’m right back at where I started.  I DO NOT FEEL WANTED BY HER.  Because the first thing on my list is the last thing on hers.

@Hygenius – Am I up in the night to expect that these changes should take longer and that patience should be a factor?  10 years of difficult sex, no exercise and relationship issues can not be solved in a month and surely not after such life changing events, right?  Or am I just a cock tease that is fitness testing my husband daily with no intention of having sex with him because I just am not interested anymore….hmmm?

I am HURT and EMBARRASSED but most of all, I’m tired.  Perhaps a trial separation would be best. Suggestions anyone.

Athol: @Hygenius actually never returned to the forum after her first set of posts, but @x1134x has stayed active and I assume he posts and they talk. Anyway, the plan we put in place appears to have worked, because today…

@x1134x – Born Tuesday:  Baby x1134x / @Hygenius 7 lbs 11 oz born via Cesarean Section.  (name too unique to divulge – our last name is very common.  A common first name would make him “John Smith”  I’ll PM it to anyone interested.)

Baby is 100% healthy, mom is recovering well.  Dad is shot.  Delirium tired.  You might not see me around here for a while. . .

Thanks @Athol_Kay.

Seriously.  Thank you.  I haven’t cried happy tears in decades.  Thank you.  You didn’t just help me fix my sex life.  You helped me fix my life.

Athol:  So… Happy Mother’s Day.  :-)

I told y’all the MAP only does everything.

Buy the book, get the free forum booklet…. fix your life.

 

Pinterest and Disinterest

I think we have a new first date question…

“Do you like Pinterest?” is a lot more subtle than “So…. are you Borderline Personality Disorder?”

‘Pinterest stress’ afflicts nearly half of moms, survey says.

In our exclusive TODAY Moms survey of 7,000 U.S. mothers, 42 percent said that they sometimes suffer from Pinterest stress – the worry that they’re not crafty or creative enough. Symptoms include staying up until 3 a.m. clicking through photos of exquisite hand-made birthday party favors even though you’ll end up buying yours at the dollar store, or sobbing quietly into a burnt mess of expensive ingredients that were supposed to be adorable bunny cookies for the school bake sale.

and…

Aiming for magazine- or Pinterest-worthy perfection all the time is an impossible goal for anyone, especially when you’ve got kids. And striving for perfection is a major source of stress for moms: One in four mothers told our TODAY Moms survey that the pressure they put on themselves to be perfect is a top cause of stress, and 75 percent report that the pressure they put on themselves is worse than any pressure or judgment they get from other moms. The result? Our average stress level is 8.5 out of 10, the survey says.

Anyway…

If that’s your wife, tell her to knock off the art department that only the mean girls in her head care about. Suggest she’d be better off lying on her back, letting you check in to the phallus palace and then she could take a nap.

In other news…

But that’s not all. In a press release published Tuesday, [Ashley Madison] also revealed that they typically see the highest spike in female signups on the day after Mother’s Day. In 2012, they saw a whopping 439 percent increase on that day as compared to a typical Monday.

“Mother’s Day tends to magnify the flaws, leads to questions about the choices you have made, and ultimately fosters conclusions around doing something different for yourself,” explains Ashley Madison founder and CEO Noel Biderman. “This latter choice tends to be the genesis of many women’s journey into an affair.”

So…

Maybe you could step up and burn the bunny cookies for her this weekend, or cook dinner or something. Meh it’s Mothers Day, there’s a little more expectation of Beta love. Some dinner suggestions… roast chickensides dishes.   If you’re buying her flowers… buy her a Just Add Ice Orchid. I got Jennifer one last September and it’s still alive! She loves it.

Sometimes a little extra effort saves you a ton of angst and trouble later on. You don’t want to be starting over asking questions about Pinterest as a screening tool because you couldn’t pass Loyalty Testing 101.

Just remember to keep the Alpha goodness in place. Have fun with it. Don’t skip your workout for any of this.

(Disclaimer: I have no idea what Pinterest is. I think it’s like a Special Olympics version of Facebook)

Is a Religious Conversion Like an Affair?

From the forum…

Sleepy:  I was reading Athol’s blog yesterday “Quirky Gifts and Flair” and read this line… she starts checking out of the relationship because she’s unhaaaaaappppppy and about to Eat, Pray, Love an exit.

So, my wife of 20+ years and 4 kids who has always been anti religion started to convert to Catholicism in secret. When I figured it out, I felt like she was cheating on me (about 6 months of individual and couples therapy and I still feel this way) as this was done in secret and her reason for needing god was that we were no longer good as a couple and she needed “love”. I flipped and basically took a position of no contact as if this was an affair, which she has done with just enough complaint that I know she still wants too.

Without going into all the details here (if there is a lot of interest I could add a thread in the 911 Relationship ER section) I guess my question is how evil am I and are there others out there who have felt this way?

Athol:  Well Eat, Pray, Love refers to a book, but the answer to your questions is yes / no / kinda / sorta / it depends.

It’s usually a critical junction when one half of a couple changes their religious status, either becoming more religious, less religious, or changing religions. They can be a wide variety of changes in personal interests and personality from benign to quite alarming as someone changes from one religious viewpoint to another. It’s always hopeful that an inter-faith marriage will stay stable, but the more divergent the expressions of belief are, the greater the stress is on the marriage.

This is largely the same effect at work as shared beliefs of any sort. Two democrats or two republicans are likely going to be more comfortable married to each other than a democrat and a republican are. It’s all about being able to relax with each other at the end of the day instead of wanting to disagree about something. Same deal if someone suddenly becomes crazy about a diet while the other isn’t. It’s a relationship stress to have one of you wanting to eat Paleo and the other being a Vegetarian… though the old joke stands that if you really want to piss off a Vegetarian give them vegetables to eat… most of them just want to eat pasta all day.

The more fundamentalist (Wikipedia) the conversion the greater the stress on the relationship is. Note that Wikipedia link to fundamentalist covers Christian, Jewish, Islamic, Hindu and even Non-Religious fundamentalism. As soon as one half of the couple digs in their heels and states they are right and their partner is not merely in misguided disagreement, but utterly wrong… or even literally damned and/or evil for whatever reason… the relationship is heading for seriously choppy waters.

If you’ve ever had your partner educated as to your total failure of morality by their near entire social group, you’ll know just how hopeless your situation is. You could be a tax-paying, law abiding, full and complete stop on red, look both ways before you cross the street, girl scout cookie buying sweetheart, but having 20-30 people tell your spouse that failure to believe in [religious belief] turns you into a horrible fallen person hell bent on destroying everything precious and good… well, it has an effect. Speaking as a good evangelical Christian back in the day my first serious girlfriend was Catholic… it doesn’t take many people giving you “Godly frowns of concern” to make you feel uneasy about your relationship. That was a Catholic girl too, not even a clutch-the-pearls Non-Christian… that would have had people directly saying things to me like, “I’d like to encourage you to seek the Lord’s guidance”, which is how evangelicals tell you you’re retarded.

And yes I get that there are a wide variety of expressions of belief from rather insipid, to rather psychotic in intensity, even within each faith or even denomination. I’m painting with a wide brush here.

Anyway… back to the question at hand…

My knee jerk reaction to your situation is that you have two issues rather than one issue.

(1)  The state of the marriage.

(2)  Her interest in Catholicism.

What she’s saying is essentially, “Because of (1) I’m (2)” which is trying to turn it into one issue. This is a poor solution because the marriage issues aren’t going to be fixed by going to church and it is obviously driving a bigger wedge between you.

My advice would be to figure out the marriage issues as marriage issues, and allow the religious issue to be handled as a religious issue. So grab the free forum booklet and answer the nine triage questions in a 911 thread on the forum and people can help you get to the bottom of things.

Or put another way, if the marriage is chugging along just great, everyone getting along well, lots of sex and laughter… would it matter very much at all if she was a standard issue Catholic?

I will say this much though, I’m not convinced she’s been hiding it from you as a way of hurting you, more as a way of trying not to lose you in the process. When I became an atheist, I kept that a secret a looooooong time. I thought I was risking my marriage coming out about it, which because my faith was part and parcel of my attractiveness to Jennifer, I think it really was. When I finally told Jennifer she bawled her eyes out with me feeling like the worst husband ever. Even after that, it took fourteen years before I felt comfortable publicly identifying as an atheist.

Anyhoo…

As official MMSL policy, I personally don’t care what you believe or disbelieve in. I obviously self-identify as atheist because I don’t believe in a deity, but I’m not trying to actively convert anyone to that point of view on MMSL. I only try and get involved in religious issues on MMSL when it seems to be clearly screwing with the marriage. At this point the entire fabric of western civilization is sufficiently screwed up that individual marriages are like sandbags keeping back the flood-waters. I don’t care what type of sand you have in your bag, just that you have a sandbag that isn’t going to fall apart.

 

Music Makes You Feel Good

I’ve always been  kinda funny about music in that I “get it” about three to five years after everyone else does. I remember being a teenager and the entire world being crazy about U2. As in everyone listening to U2 and I’m like… uh-huh. U2 even came to Wellington in either the late 80′s or very early 90′s and for months before the concert I had to listen to all the pre-concert hype from all my friends. Then the concert which obviously I skipped. Then the months of post-concert cooldown. I can’t tell you how sick of U2 I was after all that.

Then five years later I DISCOVER U2, IT IS THE GREATEST BAND IN THE WORLD, WHY DID NO ONE TELL ME ABOUT U2?

Everyone else is like… uh-huh… where have you been?

So anyway…

I’ve been digging around on YouTube for all the old bands from back in the day. There’s so much music I’ve forgotten from then. Found a few bands and cranked it. Made a Pandora.com station or two and just had stuff playing in the background doing the daily routines. It’s surprisingly energizing hearing the old music in the background and…

…OMG…

…I’ve become like one of those old people. You know the ones, listening to jazz from the 1930′s or something.

I mean no. It’s VERY ENERGIZING and screw anyone that doesn’t like your music. It’s what you like. So crank it up. The hardest thing in the world some days is feeling positive and able to face it with a smile. The truth is it really does matter and makes a difference for you when you’re more positive. You being happier makes everyone around you a little happier. Feelings are infectious, so infect someone.

Okay, okay I admit it.

I’ve been listening to freaking Petra, but if you tell anyone I’ll fucking cut you.