Sexy Move: Pick Her Dinner Out

I can’t remember how it started on the forum, but…

Kathrynthegreat:  Ordering my food for me is not treating me like a first officer; it’s treating me like a child who isn’t grown-up enough to order off the big kids’ menu.

The C/FO model will look different for every couple, but I’m pretty submissive in a relationship and I can order my own quesadillas.  Jumping from “beta” to “she’ll have the shrimp” is going to get you shot down every time.  She won’t respect you; she’ll just wonder when you got that horrible brain injury.

Athol:  I mention Kathryn’s statement because it’s a pretty accurate description of doing it wrong. I don’t order for Jennifer, because she’s a big girl and has English as her first language. But do I know what she likes so well I can draw attention to something on the menu at a new place and while she may or may not get it, it’s always in the top two items she ends up choosing between. I always lightly tease her that I know her so well and while she complains that I can do this, she’s kinda pleased about it too.

So here’s the game, you have to learn exactly what she likes when going out to eat. And I really do mean exactly. If you can’t scan a menu of one hundred items and narrow it down to two or three things (three at the most) she’ll order from with 99% likelihood, this isn’t going to work.

Then you start going online and looking up new restaurants, and instead of worrying about price and location so much right away, start start scanning the menus for your wife’s preferred dishes. When you find the perfect dish, that you’re 100% sure she’ll like, make a note of it.

Then on your chosen day, you text her just before lunch – when she’s hungry – a description of the dish and “How does that sound for dinner?”  You should get a positive response. To which you reply, “Then I’m taking you out tonight. Dress nice.”  Don’t tell her where you’re going, just drive her there.

Once at the restaurant, if she tries to wiggle out of the menu choice… you know, just to test you a little… lightly and playfully decline to let her. “No no, I offered you [menu item] and that’s why we came. This is the dinner. No substitutions. No refunds. No complaints.”  Do it all with a big cheesy smile. She’ll likely fold because it’s just a baby test and she really does like what you chose for her.

If needed, or just because you want to, your recovery move is to tell her… “Okay you play the game now. You choose the drinks/desert/coffee for both of us.” 

 You should be pleasantly surprised at what she orders for you. Odds on you’ll like it because she knows you so well.

Jennifer: He really can pick my food off a menu and get either my first or second choice almost 100% of the time. Of course I can do the same parlor trick he does. Cheeseburger, except for the the select few places he orders a steak. See, I’m a mind reading genius too!

How To Figure Out What Is Wrong In Your Sex Life

I got asked today what I do to determine the problem area in the basic problem of a wife not wanting sex. It’s an excellent question because it will determine the way you go about solving that issue too. It’s a five step process akin to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs where you need the bottom layers to be fulfilled in order to have the upper layer’s needs sought to be met. This is also why some guys get this near instant sexual explosion of interest from their wife as soon as they find MMSL, and some guys have a couple years of grinding out the MAP to make it go together.

Step One – Rule Out Medical

This is where I ask the questions about any medications, medical issues, birth control history and her all purpose general physical health. There are plenty of medical things that can nerf sex drive and ability to function sexually. You have to address this stuff first because there’s minimal benefit from running Game on a wife that just has zero sex drive and when she masturbates can no longer physically orgasm. You’re going to run your Alpha stuff and all the serotonin overload from her anti-depressants is going to flood out her ability to respond to it. Most anti-psychotics for example work by shutting down dopamine receptors in the brain, (which is also why most people on anti-psychotics have so little motivation to do anything) and you looking crazy hot is simply not going to trigger a dopamine response in her. It’s like she’s taking 200mg of I-Don’t-Give-A-Fuck.

If the problem is a medical issue, the solution is to seek medical attention and have it addressed. You simply can’t Game your way to a great sex life if the Mirena IUD inside her has completely stopped her sex drive. That being said, the health care system is increasingly an assembly line of care through too much asked of too few doctors. So you must educate yourself as fully as possible on your critical medical needs affecting your sex life. You can’t simply book a med appointment and hope for the best. You read up and ask questions. The entire goal of running the MAP may simply be to get her to seek medical attention for her issue.

Step Two – Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues

The structural attraction stuff is something you are lacking that 90%+ of all women would find a serious stumbling block to being interested in you. I’m talking about stuff like whether or not you have/can hold a job. Whether you have a mountain of debt. Whether you are badly obese. Whether you own your own car (outside of a city like New York of course). Whether your home is in a basically safe neighborhood. Whether you have a serious illness. Basically anything that is currently a big problem in your life now, that would have be a deal breaker when she first got involved with you.

Again… these are all things that you can’t Game your way out of. If she’s laying awake at night thinking about how you don’t have a job and the debt is piling up, and you’re 150 pounds overweight, she’s simply not going to respond to your cocky and funny routines as well as she could if you were in shape and there was $5,000 in the checking account. Just not happening.

So the solution is to fix those long term structural attraction issues. This may well take a long time and require huge effort, but it’s the only way to advance into the future with any degree of success.

Step Three – Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect

Sometimes you just really screw up and it creates a moment of such negative emotion in her that she is wounded by it. Stuff like you didn’t come to the birth of your kid. Her best friend died and you went fishing. You hit her for whatever reason. Also if you ever cheated on her and she discovers it. You humiliated her in public for something. Anything that you were to an outside observer completely out of line. Likewise extreme long term ignoring of her – whether that’s by video game addiction, long hours at work, or endless travel, doesn’t matter. You’ve ignored her emotional needs for so long that she’s shut off from you.

In this case she’s emotionally withdrawn from you and holding herself back from you. She’s got her shields set to maximum and doesn’t want you to be happy either. She is deeply emotionally uncomfortable with you.

The solution is to apologize and be genuine about it. Often the initial problem stems from a lack of Beta attention, so whatever that lack was, you have to now supply. Note I said lack. If you’re already heavy Beta, you don’t just add yet more Beta.

Step Four – Rule Out Another Man

If she’s physically healthy, everything is basically running smoothly and there’s no big soul crushing moment dampening things, but the sex is minimal, she’s mentally absent and acting strangely… odds are there is another man involved. This will always be hidden from you as best she can, so you will need to play detective and scurry out the phone records, credit card statements, phone and text logs, Internet history and even have her followed to actively rule out another man being in play.

I know that’s horrible to think about, but I have learned to always ask the question about ruling out someone else. I am unfortunately right about this a regrettably high amount of the time. And yet again, this is not something that being cocky and funny will effectively work on. She’s not going to respond to you with high interest over some sexy moves, when the other man has her all jacked up on dopamine from illicit text messages and swapping nude photos. You must intervene firmly, swiftly and decisively.

The basic rule of thumb is that a woman torn between two men, will typically respond in the short term to the one making the strongest, most dominant and sexually aggressive play for her. This is why Nice Guy husbands who earn good money, have a nice home and generally provide her with the lap of luxury, lose out to “douchebag losers with nothing”. The Nice Guy husband begging for his wife to come home and generally being emotional about it, will loose out to a confident douchebag who just demands she cater to him. (Six months later when the glow wears off, douchebag is seen more clearly for what he is of course… then she can have serious regrets)  Douchebag has a better Alpha profile and that’s what draws women in for affairs.  This effect of most dominant male wins is also why cheated on husbands become physically enraged and experience an enormous desire for physical violence against the other man. Back in the Time Before Writing, that’s how Alpha dominance was figured out back then. The simple act of moving in on another man’s wife and risking violence is a sleeazy but powerful Alpha move.

Step Five – Game On

If everything else checks out, she’s likely just a bit bored and as soon as you start being goofy and groping, she’s going to light up and lap it up. Play some Sexy Moves out of the bag and you’re good to go. Alpha Beta Balance for the win.

If you have multiple areas of trouble, then you need to work on all of those areas as quickly as you can. Priority should be given to the earlier steps as much as possible and you shouldn’t expect a major sexual response until Steps One through Four are fairly well under control.

If Nothing Works

If everything checks out fine in Steps One through Four, and you’ve added Step Five and still nothing… it’s likely that you have a woman that will never experience a strong sexual interest in you. She might pop some interest in you when she ovulates, but once a month sex still means the criteria of a sexless marriage. So it’s pretty much game over. She’s just not interested in you that way. Classic signs of this is her offering an open marriage or saying you could get a girlfriend.



The Forum Rocks!

Any time you do something new, you put in the effort, then you wait and see if people like it. You hope people like it, you think they probably will like it, but you still never quite know until the curtain goes up and it’s showtime.

Fly baby forum, fly. Please fly…. flappy flappy, you can do it…

Anyway…. wow… holy crap…

The MMSL Forum is doing not just well, but doing astoundingly well. I know it’s just Day 1 but it’s already getting twice as many page views as the blog is. The blog took two-and-a-half-years to get to this point, and Day 1 the Forum kicks it’s ass and steals it’s girlfriend.

Well over a hundred people already signed up for membership and there’s already some great content added by them. I’m very grateful to you all. I signed up for the “medium” cost platform with my host and Day 1 stats suggest that bandwidth is going to be easily reached in the first month. So that’s a happy problem to try and sort out.

So anyway, the MMSL forum is already a success and it’s going to be an epic success. Go take a peek.

Do What Was Working To Attract Her Back In The Day

I’m getting to be a weird age.

My sister messaged me last night just as I was about to fall asleep… “Did you know Justin Duckworth?”

Did you know. Past tense. Another one bites the dust. Justin was always a crazy fun guy and a natural focus for whatever was happening. Only a year or two ahead of me and while I wouldn’t say we were close, we certainly knew each other and ran in similar Youth For Christ circles for a while back in university days. Very bright. Trademark bare feet.

I messaged her back that yes indeed I knew him. It’s been nearly twenty years since I saw him last, but I was saddened.

Thanks to the time difference between here and New Zealand, this morning when I woke up I had no reply from her. Oh a whim I Googled him to see if I could find out anything more.

Oh. My. God.

He didn’t die… they just made him Bishop.

Obviously we no longer believe the same things, but I’m actually very pleased for him. He was extremely unbishopy back in the day, and by general agreement was chosen to be Bishop because of his lack of being bishopy. He appears to have bare feet in his ordination photos and the silly bishop hat looks somewhat out of place on top of dreadlocks. But he looks happy, so I’m happy for him. I think he’ll be great in his position too.

But it’s also kind of funny seeing one of us arrive at a position of importance too. We were all young once and now we have these jobs and lives involving kids in high school. Somehow we got to be middle aged. Somehow we went from me being age 21 and meeting an age 18 Jennifer for the first time… she wore a blue and white dress… to getting married at 24 and 22… and now we’re 42 and 39. It’s been a very long time.

Neither one of us has changed, we’re still the same Athol and same Jennifer we always were. I’m tall, she’s short. I’m smart and funny, she giggles and is very sweet tempered. We’re both introverts. We both care a great deal about doing the right thing and that other people are helped. We really haven’t changed a bit… except that we’ve done two decades of activities and learned stuff along the way, we’ve taken on some responsibilities too. We became parents and homeowners, we had careers. We traveled a few places too.

So while we are exactly the same as we’ve always been, a lot of the content of our lives has changed. I’ve mentioned a few times before on the blog that once upon a time my faith was extremely important to me, and I was very seriously considering the road toward becoming a minster. I’ve always liked helping people, I love teaching, I always loved making people think about how to live. I’m acutely aware how pastoral in nature MMSL is, it’s just not religiously based. If you shut your eyes for a minute, can’t you hear me all but preaching the gospel of the Red Pill?

I’m still the same person, just the content of my life has changed.

So let’s talk about you now.

One of the things I did in yesterday’s post was encourage you to do the same things that you originally did to attract your wife to you. One of the comments was to the effect of “well I was in a grunge band, that really did work to attract her back them, but I can’t do that now, and I don’t know if it would even work if I did it anyway.”

I hear you. But what if the content of your life was “being in a grunge band”, but what you were about was simply “music”?

Do you still go to concerts? Do you still practice your instrument? Do you still get excited about various bands releasing new albums? You may not play grunge anymore, but maybe you could be forming a group and playing something, somewhere, sometime. Maybe you can record your own music and put it on Amazon, or have a blog and have it downloadable or whatever. Maybe you can teach music lessons. It may not matter what you do around music one little bit, you just need to be doing something passionate in your life to energize and engage you. Maybe it wasn’t being in a grunge band that did it for her. Maybe it was the way you looked so vibrant when you were playing that did it for her. Maybe when the music died, you died a little too.

It’s the same with sports. If you’re 42 you can’t re-live the glory days of that one perfect touchdown forever. You can however stay in shape. You can throw a football around with the kids. You can get excited and follow a team. You can coach little league. You can play in a masters soccer league. You can switch sports and learn golf. Hell even a bowling league is better than sitting at home every day and gaining ten pounds every year since you graduated high school.

My father was a racer. He raced cars before I was born and a little after, then he raced yachts when I was a kid, then he raced go-karts after I had moved out. We watched tons of Formula 1 together. We went to speedway dozens of times. When he visited us and it synced up with the NASCAR schedule, we drove three-and-a-half hours up to New Hampshire to watch the race. He ended up building a full International level go-kart track just outside of Rotorua. Dad’s interest in racing never changed, just the content of what he was racing.

My hunch is that whatever it was that you were doing when you meet your wife was, it wasn’t boring. You were doing something you found interesting and fun. But you were doing something that you were naturally interested in and basically good at. So you can be the same person you always were, just change the content for something that can work now. That’s how barefoot and quirky Justin can grow up and become a Bishop. That’s how I met Jennifer by being a guest preacher and here I am all grown up writing MMSL. So find whatever it is that you’re passionate about and don’t let it die.

Oh and if all you were doing to attract your wife when you were young was attending drunken frat parties… the middle-aged equivalent is called a wine tasting.

When Your Wife Hugs Everyone And It Drives You Crazy

Reader:  My wife is a “hugger”, sort of. She doesn’t hug everyone, but she does hug friends, including male friends.

*** edited out five paragraphs of ranting descriptions of hugging occurrences ***

Ok, so you can tell this is a REAL issue for me.

The hugs aren’t full body hugs, but they ARE two armed hugs. They only last for perhaps two seconds. I’m SURE her boobs touch the other person. Hell, I occasionally get a hug from a woman and generally her boobs touch ME, so I really shouldn’t be bitching. So rationally I know the hugs are no big deal, I don’t think there’s any impropriety occurring, but that doesn’t stop the caveman me from wanting to grab a club and cave in a skull. I’m talking about the “other guy” of course.

So I have two questions for you:

1. Do you let Jennifer hug other men?

2. Could my wife be putting me through a fitness test? If so, I’m not sure how to handle this because we’ve fought a few times in the last 20 years (Shit!) about this.

I’ve suggested my wife could give one armed hugs and hold her other arm in front of her, but she thought that was a ridiculous idea despite my assurances that I’ve had MANY women do that to me. (It sends a subtle, non-insulting message, while still allowing a hug to happen.)

So, am I being an idiotic prick? Should I just learn to deal with, perhaps by starting to hug other women more often? I’m not a real “huggy” person (except with wifey), but maybe I should learn how?

Help me Obiwan Athol, you are my only hope.

Obiwan:  The short answer is… two second hugs aren’t a big deal. Relax.

The longer answer is…

It’s not really a fitness test because I think she genuinely is a social hugger.

You have an impasse. Her threshold of what is appropriate touch is a lot higher than yours. But you complaining about it will cross her threshold of what is appropriate influence. Or put more plainly, she hugs people and it sets you off, but when you complain about it, it sets her off because you’re “controlling and paranoid”. So you get nowhere complaining about it.

So much of what is appropriate is determined by a host of social cues I’m not there to see or be a part of. Which is why I edited out the descriptions of the alleged inappropriate two second hugs, because I know someone in the comments is just going to skip ahead and tell you your wife is pregnant with another man’s child.

However, any place it is socially appropriate for your wife to hug another man, it’s also socially appropriate for him to shake your hand. So she hugs him, you stroll over and offer your hand / introduce yourself. He’s pretty much obligated to shake your hand, or otherwise he’s massively disrespecting you, whereupon, it’s all fair game to make a bit of a scene. If he doesn’t shake your hand and touches your wife, call him on it in public right there. “Is there a reason you feel you can put your hands on my wife and not shake my hand?”

Or… seeing your right hand is unshaken and free, playfully and just a little too hard sock him in the shoulder, or slap him on the back. Say “great to see ya” and smile. (Important tip: Only do this if you can whip his ass in a fight)

When he shakes your hand, if it’s the choir director he’s probably an okay guy, so set your handshake to medium and be friendly. If the other guy is a douchebag, basically crush his hand and stare at him unblinking while smiling. Hand strength being a pretty good indicator of your total physical ability. It’s kind of a variant on the iron hand in the velvet glove.

It’s overly Beta to get all twisted up about her two second hugging someone, it’s Alpha to confidently shake someone’s hand.


If Jennifer wants to hug someone she can. Doesn’t happen overly much though and her affection for people is quite genuine rather than sexually motivated. We actually had a long talk about this together tonight and debated the issue a little. I’m actually more of a hugger than she is I think, so the higher threshold one of the two of us is probably me. I think for the two of us, public hugs with the opposite sex are okay. Anything beyond a vanilla hug is crossing the line for both of us.

Jennifer:  It really does depend on so many things.  A two second “nice to see you, I really like you” hug is totally different than a 15 second, half-groping, rubbing your back and not letting go hug.  Also, if you are hugging every man you work with, that’s crossing a boundary.  If you are hugging a friend, or someone from church, that’s a more social situation and understandable.  It’s funny…hugging is apparently much less sexual to me than to other people…if I’m hugging a friend it’s not sexual to me since I’m not sexually interested in them…and hugging is different in intent and expression than groping.  If I’m hugging Athol, of course it’s different (nudge nudge wink wink). 


I’ve been getting some general concern that I’m shooting myself in the foot by using politically incorrect words like “dominance” and “submission”. I’ve also reached into the grab bag of f-bombs and slang to describe the lady bits. The thought being if I just eased up a little, I would start appealing to women more.

Ahhhh…. no.

I write about the appeal of the Bad Boy tempered by the Nice Guy. Thus MMSL is written with a mix of Bad Boy and Nice Guy. As soon as I start toning it down and start trying to appeal to women by writing like a Nice Guy, my female readership will start drifting away. Slightly more than half of MMSL’s readership is female already, so consider that to be the best evidence I have.

I write about how women like rough sex (if only some of the time). Seriously now, how does one talk about hair pulling, spanking and pounding her in the sack with politically correct flowery language? Exactly… you can’t. Words like “dominance” and “submission” are loaded with erotic capital.

Here, read this from a comment from yesterday…

For years I struggled to communicate what I wanted from my husband because I was using the wrong d$&@ word!  Maybe I was just dancing around the idea when I would say ” I want you to show me who’s boss”,  or “I need to feel your strength”.  I have to say that I, for years, thought that I was broken for wanting this and thought that using the word dominant, in my mind,  would only tell him just how broken I was, highlighting  how far off I was from the ideal, independent woman.  It was so lonely to want something so badly that would only prove how unworthy I was.  I finally ran across takeninhand and then MMSL.   That’s where I found the courage to finally tell him that I wanted to be dominated (especially in bed).  I could not believe his response.  He said “Well why didn’t you just say so?”.  I broke down crying, telling him that I’d been trying for 20 years.  Yes, I learned, word choice matters.

You can’t nice your way to primal sexuality. Women aren’t turned on by the nice, they are turned on by the edge. I’m not saying that you suddenly have to start up with the sailor talk, but if your language is falling all over itself to not offend, it’s basically neutering you. You’re a man. Say what you think. Don’t say what you think you should say.

Women are okay with a little smut. Seriously now, 50 Shades of Grey is flying off the shelves into the hands of a lot of hot and bothered women. Yeah baby. A man who can talk about sex with confidence and a little bit of an edge is telegraphing his ability to be good in bed to everyone around him. It’s an easy instigation move. It’s sexy.

For example, if you can’t even say the word “vagina” without worrying about collapsing from a panic attack, that’s pretty bad. Saying “down there” is a cop-out too. “Down there” is where you ain’t going.

So here’s the plan, I want you to out loud, strongly and firmly say the word “Pushy.”  I know it sounds strange, just do it. Get used to the word and say it until it feels relaxed and casual when you say it. Pushy, Pushy, Pushy.

Say it like this lol…

Jennifer:  He’s just like this in real life.  Laughing to himself as he wrote the Sean Connery thing.  (And yes, I do think Sean Connery is hot…I’m all for the foreign accents, baby.)

Money Casual

Reader:  Hey Athol, I’m a reader of your blog and I just received the book: love it!

I have an idea for a blog post: male baldness. How does it affect our sex rank  and how to best handle it.

Another similar idea: fashion/clothing. Expensive brands (display of wealth) and tight fits one a strapping body are the ideal it seems.

Athol:  Okay the easy one. Yes indeed expensive/tailored items properly fitting on a great body are ideal. Not so much tight fitting as properly fitting. For a woman tightly fitting gets a more of a boost.

Slightly less easy is baldness. It’s a mild negative in that it displays increased age as opposed to being a early twenties stud muffin. However you can do far more damage to yourself trying to cover it all up rather than just accepting it and facing it head on. The comb-over isn’t a hairstyle, it’s a extreme display of weakness and low value. It shouts out that you have no woman in your life that gives a crap about your appearance.

I have no clue whether or not any of the magical hair products and treatments work or provide value for money, so I can’t offer you any advice about them. My solution was just to buzz it all short one a week and be done with it. Jennifer cut it for me at home and it was kinda fun.

My new thing has just been to shave my head. After a few days of adjustment both Jennifer and I like it. It seems to be a slightly better look for me and I present cleaner and more put together. Also she rubs my head and giggles.

Whether it’s your hair or your clothes, the trick it is to look intentional. Doesn’t really matter too much what you are dressing as in terms of style, but that you are appearing exactly as you intend to appear and it’s not an accident you look as you do. Stuff matching helps a great deal for this. Clean clothes. New clothes. Planned and intentional. A shirt can be just fine to wear when you go out, but if you haven’t ironed properly then it’s not going to be a positive.

Something like the iconic Steve Jobs black shirt and jeans is a great example of being intentional. It’s not a high class look, but it’s well fitting, clean, new looking and well made. He’s purposely not wearing a suit. He’s obviously intending to wear exactly what he’s wearing and everyone knows it. Thus it works.

The trap to avoid is having one or two really good outfits you wear for special occassions and a bunch of dross. You’ll end up only underlining how bad you look on a daily basis the few times you play dress up. You need to set out to create a wardrobe that is consistently a little better than your social circle. Once you can do that, you get all the ladies attention as the best dressed man in the room. Just being the best dressed man in the room is like creating an instigation field around you like… okay crap… it’s like Paladin aura gravity well for pussy.

As I’ve mentioned before, this is still an area I’m working on myself – part of the issue with nursing is my day job is a little rough and tumble so fancy clothes quickly become unfancy on the job and we’ve been catching up on the money front as well. I’m not really a big suit guy either. Personally I like casual and comfortable clothes, though that easily turns into the “early K-Mart” look that repels women. And I like light colors as well. I intellectually get the black shirt and jeans look, but everytime I’m in a black shirt I don’t really like it.

Anyway a couple months back I got the brainwave about how I need to look. It’s two words. “Money Casual.” I find once you view clothes through the lens of “Does this say Money Casual.” everything becomes a lot clearer as to whether or not you should buy it.

The old rules still apply though. Get in shape first, then add the clothes.

Jennifer:  …and truly, if you can’t afford to buy high priced labels, just buy what you can afford and what fits.  It’s less important to flaunt a super expensive label than it is to be neat and clean.  If I can tell what you had for lunch the last time you wore that shirt because it is a permanent stain…points off.  If the cuffs are frayed and the knees are worn because they’re your favorite jeans…wear them when you’re sitting home alone or doing yard work, not out to our date.  If you are ironed, not stained and faded, and coordinating…I’ll take it!  (well not really, I’ve got my well dressed man…you know what I mean) 

Why Does Struggling To Make A Baby Sex Suck So Much?

Reader:  Just a thought for a potential blog post topic.

Making a baby the old fashioned way, by that I mean getting smashed and going at it like savages, is fun.

Making a baby because your wife is ovulating and the fertility clinic has pumped her full of hormones, not fun.

Been there, done that.  I’m assuming a variety of your readers have been in this situation.  Across the board, all of my male friends refer to “Pro-creation sex” as the most un-stimulating experience out there.  The intimacy and man/woman roles are somehow missing along with the satisfaction.

Maybe you could help explain why and how to attempt to make it hot?

Just throwin’ it out there.

Athol:  The issue is that it isn’t hot because it’s basically shouting that the person you’re having sex with is a poor choice of baby making due to the low fertility. Resulting babies are also more likely to be poorly fertile as well. Thus the entire display is extremely unsexy. Just having the thought in your head going around and around that “it’s hard to get her pregnant” is a mood killer in the extreme. If she was a one night stand you were never going to see again, your Body Agenda doesn’t worry about it. But if she’s your bonded partner and you’re going to spend time, effort and resources on the kid, you start getting as picky as a woman does about the genetic material being supplied from your sex partner.

When you’re doing it the old fashioned way and she’s highly fertile, it’s amazing because she’s such a great vagina to pour your semen into. Her babies are more likely to be good baby makers too. Very sexy indeed. Oh wow making babies sex with Jennifer was amazingly amazing.

Anyway, there’s no easy way to reverse it and make it hot when your Body Agenda hates the idea of it. Though if you ask around there are many stories of “We gave up trying to make it happen and just went on vacation and it happened!”

My suggestion would be plan ahead to plot when her ovulation should be, and plan for a night of sex then in a novel environment. Like a hotel room. Then separate for a few days beforehand. Someone go live somewhere else. Meet in the hotel room. Hopefully the damming up the seed turns into need and it all happens with more excitement. The separation creates a little added sperm competition boosting to the male as well. Also you can get away on a vacation and change the scenery a little.

Mostly though, don’t let her get away with being horribly unsexy as an approach. Her coming to you with a thermometer in hand, wearing sweatpants and demanding to be impregnated now, isn’t a sexual come on. Her bullying you into sex isn’t a turn on either. Tell her to go make herself look nice, wear something sexy, make it appear like she is trying to attract you. Otherwise you may as well be jerking off into a specimen cup and handing it to her.

And not for nothing, when women ovulate they tend to like a far more Alpha approach in the bedroom. Giving  her entire control of the sex that night isn’t going to make for good sex and likely decreases her chances of actually getting pregnant. Pull her hair a little and tap that ass well enough to make her not care if she actually got pregnant or not. Leave her stumbling incoherently out of bed for one ice pack, two Aleve and three pages in her diary.

Dealing With “Duty Sex”

Reader:  Okay, two more quick questions and then I promise I’ll ease off.  (-:

1.)  Duty sex.  Those times when she’s just not that into it but you wind up doing it anyway, and she doesn’t wind up getting that into it during.  Maybe it’s just leftover Nice Guy “she comes first” programming, but I’ve always found it vaguely depressing.  It satisfies me in only the most literal, biological sense.  It doesn’t make me feel attractive or Alpha or whatever, it just makes me feel… empty.

Because of that, I used to avoid it like the plague, and I know the down sides of that (lots of mutual submission deadlock “do you want to have sex?” “I don’t know, do you?” crap mostly, and, paradoxically, less good satisfying sex in general).  So I’m resigned to the fact that, yes, sometimes I’m going to be into it and she’s not and that’s okay.

I guess what I’m asking is, how do you deal with it?  How do you frame it in your mind as something that’s okay?  Or am I just neurotic for even asking?  (-:

And on a related note,

2.)  There’s this whole chapter in the Primer about rewarding good behavior and punishing (through lack of attention) bad behavior.  Should this sort of duty sex be rewarded (because she did, after all, lay you, if perhaps not as enthusiastically as you might have wished) or punished (because, sure, you got sex, but it was half-hearted, unenthusiastic, resigned sex instead of the hot “do me you Alpha stud” fuckfest you wanted)?

Athol:  There’s a scale between “no sex at all” and “crazy hot sex”. “Duty sex” is somewhere just below the middle of that scale.  There’s also a sexual fitness where you need to get into more practice to get to the good stuff. You just can’t go from bad sex to crazy hot sex overnight. The more you have sex the better at it you get together. After the duty sex comes okay sex. After okay sex comes better sex. After better sex comes good sex. After good sex comes great sex.

The trouble is you are wanting to experience the feelings associated with great sex… with duty sex. You can’t. If you were having those feelings associated with great sex with duty sex, you’d actually be experiencing great sex. Great sex being defined as feeling great.

And now the cold clinical behavior modification section of the post where I treat women like lab rats….

If duty sex is the sexual behavior baseline, any time she does something better than duty sex, you should positively respond to it. Any time she does something worse than duty sex, you should reduce attention to her. Not actively punish her, simply reduce attention.

In time as her pattern of behavior improves to where you guys are having okay sex, then that becomes the new baseline. Once you’re up in the consistently good to great sex realm, the sex itself is a major reward so it’s very reinforcing of keeping that level of sexuality going. There’s not all that often that I specficially reward Jennifer for being good in bed, watching her arching her back and trying to tear the corner off her pillow as she orgasms being indication she’s getting a prefered reward anyway. It’s like a mouse that runs a maze to get to the cheese. When it gets there, you don’t pet it and tell it that it’s a pretty mouse, you just let it eat the cheese. Otherwise you can accidently end up with a mouse that doesn’t have interest in running mazes to find cheese, but a lot of interest in being petted and told it’s a pretty mouse.

Okay I think I abused that metaphor enough… moving on.

If you turn down the duty sex, she will interpret that as a display of weakness and become less interested in you. Men turning down sex are generally viewed being the complete opposite of Alpha by women. Guys are meant to be able to have sex with any opportunity available. Your wife. The co-worker. The drunk friend. The passed out woman behind the dumpster. Men are meant to be able to opportunistically whip their dicks out and stuff them into available vagina. That’s why “available” is the sexyest thing a woman can be to a man. Every time a married guy cheats on his wife, it’s because amongst other things, the other woman was available.

So when your wife makes herself available to you, and you don’t avail yourself of her, that’s sending her a highly negative response. Most wives have near zero ability to emotionally handle their husbands declining sex to them. If you do turn your wife down for sex, you should have a really good excuse like, “I have a gunshot wound and want to go to the ER.” Though obviously don’t use that if she has just shot you, because she’ll just think you’re blaming her for everything. Plus she has a gun. So comply.


Reduced sexual frequency also further establishes a pattern of lower sexual interaction. You want more sex, not less. So have more sex.  So I would keep having the duty sex and view it as a stepping stone to better sex. Sometimes you have to learn to walk before you run.

Also I get the vague sense that you’re trying to get the warm-fuzzies from having sex that you’re missing elsewhere in the relationship. Experiment with just fucking her. What you want is for her to act like she’s really into it… like she’s being fucked. So that won’t happen until you actually act a little harder edged and just fuck her. You’d be surprised how how cuddly women get after getting well and truly fucked.

I know this is a terrible paradox to come to grips with if you are a Nice Guy, but the greater the need of emotional connection you bring into bed with you, the less likely it is she connects to you emotionally. I really like Jennifer. We get on great and not only is she my best friend currently, she’s the best friend I’ve ever had. We kiss and cuddle and are warm and fuzzy with each other during the day and in bed. But there are also times when I don’t care about any of that. She’s just a woman in my bed and I’ll get what I want from her. I pump… but don’t dump.

The frame I tend to run with is that I’m like Dr Bruce Banner, walking around holding myself under control to avoid turning into a giant green rage monster called The Hulk that I can’t control. Except instead of rage, it’s horny. And to be quite honest… it’s not much of a frame, because this is pretty much the reality of the situation. So… available-pussy-I-can-unleash-on… fuck yeah!


Jennifer:  Every night isn’t crazy hot sex, but ever day is something sexual together so we never lose the connection. The more Athol is into it, the more I’m into it. And if I’m tired or cranky or whatever, I’ll say so and offer him what I’m in the mood for.  This makes me more likely to be into it because I’m giving him a heads up as to what I’m going to be receptive to that night.  (he he…heads up…he he) 

The Nice Guy Panic Attack After Standing Up To Your Wife

Reader:  I’ve been working hard to actually reform my nice guy routine, and have been standing up to shit tests.  In the last couple weeks, I have pushed back a number of times, highlighting that I don’t like her behavior.  She told me that I was acting like an ass, and then said: “I mean, I know I’m an asshole, but I don’t think we work when you are too.”  Granted, I may have been a little on the rough side when I’ve bumped back a bit, but at the same time, I’ve been telling her things like: “You wouldn’t accept that behavior from me, so why do you expect that I would from you?”  or: “With that attitude, today is going to be a very long day.”  Basically, I just don’t feel like she respects me.  During this argument, I remained calm and patient the whole time.  I explained that I have been working to stand up for myself, and define the ways that we will interact with each other, in an effort to have a healthy, loving, affectionate marriage.

So, I’m sitting here thinking that I was all proud of myself for actually standing up for myself.  But I have a lingering thought that even though I did something different, I get the feeling that it isn’t really working either.  Is this a shift in the alpha dynamic in my marriage, or do you think I’m only serving to push her farther away?

Athol:  It doesn’t matter if it’s “working” or not. If she’s treating you like crap, it’s unacceptable.

 “I mean, I know I’m an asshole, but I don’t think we work when you are too.”


 “Our relationship involves me treating you like crap and you tolerating it. You aren’t allowed to change that.”

If you defer to this behavior of hers, you will lose somehow. If you stand up to it, you may “win” or you may “lose”. But standing up to it is the only possible chance at “winning.”  Thus, you’re doing exactly the right thing.

What you’re experiencing though is the Nice Guy panic attack that happens right after you stand up for yourself and you haven’t yet heard back either a positive or negative response. Essentially what you’re doing in standing up for yourself is the complete opposite of your normal coping routine which is based on being socially anxious. Now all that anxiety just builds and builds and your own little hamster gets wound up to 100 mph about everything that could go wrong and all that anxiety is intensified into a giant event of dread.

The only way to get over it is to let it pass over you and wait for her response. While you wait though, it’s best to not look like you are experiencing a panic attack because it’s not an Alpha vibe at all. My recommendation is to just get active and do whatever tasks you find most distracting and do them until you get an answer. More often than not, you’re going to get a positive response as long as it doesn’t look like you are currently soiling yourself.

This panic attack sort of thing also hits Nice Guys when they step outside their normal boundaries and do something risky for the first few times. For example the first few times you text her to send naked photos of herself, you’re very likely to experience a moment where you go…

…OMFG what have I done how can I unsend this message OH NO OH NO OH NO she’s going to get the message and hate my guts and tell me that I’m a total jerk for doing something so inappropriate and wrong shit shit shit shit she’s going to tell me to fuck off and stop being a pervert and that will be that oh god why did I send that message to her I’m so stupid I’ve got to apologize before she finds the message and hates me oh but it’s probably too late because she always has her phone and she’s already seen it so I should just wait for her to reply…. okay its been like SIX MINUTES AND SHE HASN’T REPLIED TO ME!!! Oh god it’s over she hates it and is angry at me I just know it I can’t breathe I need to use the bathroom and pee and shit I’m shaking why did I do that why why why oh calm down calm down and EIGHT MINUTES aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhh!!!!!



…. oh no my erection is trapped in my pants and shooting off at a weird angle and it’s painful but there’s too many people around to rearrange myself and ow ow ow ow….